odrikez Senior Member Joined: 18 Dec 2013 Posts: 1 Location: Brussels Belgium Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Isomac Zaffiro Grinder: Mazzer Mini
Posted Wed Dec 18, 2013, 2:18am Subject: Isomac Mondiale PID
I just noticed that there was a new machine on the Isomac website. It is a PID version of the Mondiale. I've always wanted to install PID controller on my Zaffiro but for some reason I never quite took the plunge. It is interesting to me the fact that some companies are starting to install PID on their existing lines of products. Couldn't really find any review though. Does anyone had a chance to play with this Mondiale PID ?
NobbyR Senior Member Joined: 10 Jul 2011 Posts: 2,052 Location: Germany Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo Vac Pot: N/A Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe Roaster: N/A
Posted Thu Dec 19, 2013, 2:07am Subject: Re: Isomac Mondiale PID
While your Zaffiro is a SBDU machine, which means installing a PID would really make sense, the Mondiale is an HX machine. So a PID isn't much more than expensive eye candy on it, put there for marketing reasons, simply because it's fashionable. The boiler being on steaming temperature, you cannot directly influence brewing temperature with the PID. It'll still be a matter of trial and error to get a specific temperature. It's cheaper to control brewing temperature by the length of the cooling flush, which can be done quite consistently. However, using a PID might be more comfortable than changing boiler pressure via pressostat, if you want to change boiler temperature.
*** "This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee, when he was urged to ban the beverage)
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 7,881 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32 Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Msl. Com. brewers Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Thu Dec 19, 2013, 6:40am Subject: Re: Isomac Mondiale PID
Hi, yes, what he said! The argument can also be made that a PID will last longer than a Pstat so the addition of the PID in place of the Pstat can be seen as an improvement in durability of the machine but it will not have an affect on the result in the cup.
Pretty much though, it is eye candy and a bow to the market in terms of "gee wiz" "features".
In real life, my name is Wayne P. Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
billc Senior Member Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 133 Location: Seattle, Washington Expertise: Professional
Espresso: CC1 - GS - GS3 - GB5 Grinder: Baratza - Mazzer-Marzocco Drip: My own Creation
Posted Thu Dec 19, 2013, 9:25pm Subject: Re: Isomac Mondiale PID
Jon, yes we did do quite a bit of testing. The results were not only more accurate but also a faster response time. The temp of the water vapor inside the boiler is proportional to the pressure. The electronic temperature control was able to sense the temperature change faster than the pressure switch. In a commercial setting with a separate steam boiler it improved performance about 20%. Pretty important when you are serving a line out the door.
In the case of a HX machine there is not a huge improvement in performance. The reason is when brewing the cold water entering the coffee boiler (HX part) cools the water in the steam boiler and the heating element is on at 100% to account for this. The inefficiencies of a heat exchanger machine are too great to overcome with just an electronic temperature control (with PID Control). It does remove a mechanical wearing part and also lowers overall power consumption however (mostly at idle state). Additionally it does provide a bit more consistency in the heating process.
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