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This a good deal?
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > This a good...  
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bossman
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Dec 2013
Posts: 100
Location: Iowa
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Mini Vivladi II
Grinder: Baratza Vario-W
Drip: Cuisinart
Roaster: Soon I hope
Posted Sun Feb 23, 2014, 6:46am
Subject: This a good deal?
 

Here is another find in an add kinda locally to me, can someone help identify the models and if this is a really good price or not?  It's not really in my budget at the moment so it would need to be a really good deal in order for me to consider it lol.

We have for sale a near new Nuova Simonelli Espresso & Cappuccino machine.
Also there is a coffee Grinder that goes with it as well as all the equipment in the picture.
We will also include an Espresso Quick Reference Guide with hundreds of recipes for Espresso and Iced Italian Beverages. We are asking $1200. This unit cost $3800 new and still works like new.

bossman: mcahine grinder.jpg
(Click for larger image)
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boar_d_laze
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1,069
Location: Monrovia, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Cimbali M21 DT/1 Junior...
Grinder: Ceado E92; "Bunnzilla"
Vac Pot: Royal Coffee Maker
Drip: Chemex + Kone; Espro Press
Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Posted Sun Feb 23, 2014, 9:06am
Subject: Re: This a good deal?
 

The machine is a Nuova Simonelli Appia 1 group volumetric HX.  It is a true commercial machine, but single-group commercials work very well in homes which have the space.    

They must be plumbed in to water supply and drain lines; which -- right off the bat -- probably means it's out of your class.  It's also 21" high, too tall to fit beneath kitchen cabinets. NS made Appias with different types of power requirements, but most sold in the US are 110V 15A, and will work just fine on a normal home circuit.

An Appia is in the same performance / value class as the Elektra T1 and La Cimbali M21, which is to say it's an ultimate, single-group HX.  You can not make better coffee than you can on those machines.  I own a Cimbali M21 "Casa," and wouldn't change it for less than a Slayer -- and then only for the prestige.  

The grinder is an NS MDX, which is a pretty good grinder.  If it is an MDX, it's in the Mazzer SJ performance class, but easier to use and generally more "luxe" than the Mazzer.  It's not a "Titan," but is darn high up the grinder ladder and adequate for the machine.

New, street price for an Appia volumetric is around $3500, and around $1000 for an MDX.  Value of used equipment is extremely condition and age dependent.  The machine is far from new, I'm not an expert on NS Appia cosmetics, but there have been some changes over the years and I believe that's a fairly early volumetric -- perhaps eight years old.  Whatever the machine's age we can assume from its color and appearance the grinder was bought at the same time and is the same age.  

If I'm right about age, and everything's in good shape, $1200 seems on the high side of reasonable, but still reasonable.  It's an interesting opening offer, if you're interested in that kind of machine.

The joker in the deck is that the machines aren't available for inspection.  If the seller is willing to take the sides and tops off, and comprehensively photograph the machine's innards, that's one offering price.  If it's take it or leave it, that's another -- perhaps $600 with some guarantees, including seller bearing the cost of return shipping if the machine can't be brought to full working order with a reasonable expenditure of time and money.

FWIW, the grinder alone, in good shape (and it probably is, there's not much you can do to hurt an MDX), whether or not it needs new burrs, is worth the same as a used SJ, probably $350.  An NS Appia in reasonable condition, is probably worth around $600.  $900 is an okay price for the setup, more if it's in really good shape.  

FWIW, restaurant machines tend to be full of bad surprises when they're first opened after years of "working like new" without any maintenance whatsoever.  

Best case, figure a half-dozen hours for cleaning the insides, replacing the group head gasket, removing and replacing the OPV and vacuum-breaker valve to check for good operation, etc., etc. It would be nice not to need a descale, but surprising if you didn't. Descaling a commercial, plumb-in, rotary pump HX is a several day, several bucket process.  The grinder WILL need new burrs, and unless you're in to single dosing, you'll also want to a add a grinder timer for another $100.

That's best case.  

As a general rule, don't buy used unless you enjoy a project.  But as another general rule, you never know.  What a great first good setup!  At least make some inquiries.

You talked about your decision as contingent on whether or not the offer was a "really good deal."  My suggestion is to make up your mind on whether you're chasing an ultimate bargain or an ultimate coffee set up.  It's not often that you can find both, and if what you want is really good espresso it doesn't make much sense to waste months chasing an amount which amortizes to a few cents a day.  I enjoy negotiation as much as anyone, but there's a lot to be said for just writing the check and being done with it.

Know what you want.

Rich
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bossman
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Dec 2013
Posts: 100
Location: Iowa
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Mini Vivladi II
Grinder: Baratza Vario-W
Drip: Cuisinart
Roaster: Soon I hope
Posted Sun Feb 23, 2014, 10:42am
Subject: Re: This a good deal?
 

Thank you!  Yeah, probably not for me then.  My coffee bar area will have water/drain access eventually but I don't plan on doing that for a while.  I just don't know enough yet and I am afraid a really good bargain is going to be right in front of my face and I will miss it.  This area not being known for much even decent coffee I figure someone might sell something nice for great deal.

I think once my CC1 gets here that will be fine for me for a few years anyway then I will start looking for a shiny chrome commercial grade machine.
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dwRK
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Sep 2013
Posts: 92
Location: Houston
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Sun Feb 23, 2014, 9:49pm
Subject: Re: This a good deal?
 

I believe that is a NS Mac...the predecessor of the Appia. the grinder is not MDX...its basically a rossi RR45 in NS skin.

they are old...and the condition not that great...so $1200 not worth it...

two mint condition Appia went for about $1000 few months back...good condition MDX is about $250-300

if you have the space...some gems do come along...i've not pick them up because its just too big and/or the mrs will kill me...a few i do regret eventually...

izzo pompei 2 group lever...$1700, 3 yr old, great condition
la san marco 83mm grinder...$400, like new...
mazzer major and sj grinder...$400, previous gen, old SJ already goes for $400...so major is free
NS appia and la pavoni pub...$1000, like new...

but hey that's life...
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,670
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Mon Feb 24, 2014, 7:07am
Subject: Re: This a good deal?
 

dwRK Said:

I believe that is a NS Mac...the predecessor of the Appia. the grinder is not MDX...its basically a rossi RR45 in NS skin.

Posted February 23, 2014 link

I beg to differ sir, the MDX is not a RR45 in a different skin, rather it is a grinder equal to a Mazzer SJ, with an easier to use adjustment system. It is NOT stepped, it is a very nice grinder and as I have owned a RR45, SJ, MDX, Major and other grinders both up and down the scale, my considered thoughts on the grinder is that I would rather have a MDX than a SJ. YMMV.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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boar_d_laze
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1,069
Location: Monrovia, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Cimbali M21 DT/1 Junior...
Grinder: Ceado E92; "Bunnzilla"
Vac Pot: Royal Coffee Maker
Drip: Chemex + Kone; Espro Press
Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Posted Mon Feb 24, 2014, 7:21am
Subject: Re: This a good deal?
 

Good catch on the MAC / Appia. My mistake. While the grinder still looks like an MDX to me, the subject is moot.    

Rich
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dwRK
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Sep 2013
Posts: 92
Location: Houston
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Mon Feb 24, 2014, 9:43am
Subject: Re: This a good deal?
 

hey no problem all...its all moot

just to clear this point...I did not say the MDX is RR45 in a different skin. I meant the picture is not MDX. The picture shows to me looks like an MDS...the collar gave it away and from what I've read it is a rebrand of RR45...i could be completely wrong but you can see this post...and others on the internet...
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