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Vesuvius coming to stay for a while
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Vesuvius coming...  
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DavecUK
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Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,453
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Thu Feb 27, 2014, 7:45am
Subject: Vesuvius coming to stay for a while
 

First really new machine for a while from an Italian manufacturer. It comes to me on Saturday for extended test and if it's OK, they're going to start production of the first 10 machines.

It's got loads of stuff in it I asked for...in various conversations with the owner of the company...and I've been waiting nearly 2 years for it to drop into my sweaty little hands for testing.

What can I say at the moment.

  1. Special Pressure profiling pump (can simulate a lever), or a number of user programmable profiles.
  2. Real preinfusion programmable for pressure
  3. No buttons, all on touchpad
  4. Steel Boilers
  5. Tanked or mains plumbed
    ...and lots of other stuff

I cannot wait for Saturday!

DavecUK: v1.jpg
(Click for larger image)
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NobbyR
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NobbyR
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 2,052
Location: Germany
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete
Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo
Vac Pot: N/A
Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe
Roaster: N/A
Posted Thu Feb 27, 2014, 11:47pm
Subject: Re: Vesuvius coming to stay for a while
 

Sounds interesting. I hope you'll let us know the results of your testing. Personally, I'm always a little wary of too much electronics. Like in modern cars, they tend to cause trouble and make DIY repairs much more difficult. Nothing like good old mechanics.

 
***
"This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee, when he was urged to ban the beverage)
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DavecUK
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Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,453
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Fri Feb 28, 2014, 5:06am
Subject: Re: Vesuvius coming to stay for a while
 

NobbyR Said:

Sounds interesting. I hope you'll let us know the results of your testing. Personally, I'm always a little wary of too much electronics. Like in modern cars, they tend to cause trouble and make DIY repairs much more difficult. Nothing like good old mechanics.

Posted February 27, 2014 link

I also like traditional designs without too much electronics...however there is electronics I like and stuff I don't. Take computers, phones, tablets incredibly reliable now, especially the stuff with non moving parts. Repairs are simple replacements, if a modular design like a computer e.g., replace memory, gfx card, mother board etc...

Then there is the type of electronics I always have concerns about....which is where we have the 70s to early 90s technologies, admittedly refined, but not as reliable as many low energy modern electronics and lastly the "electro mechanical" stuff. been used since the late 40s, easy to understand and in many cases relatively bulletproof and the only way to do things.

If somethings very modern it can be OK, as long as it's modular and parts are reasonable. e.g. I love properly speced SSRs vs mechanical relays and they are often the same price for greatly enhanced reliability (assuming good installation). An important concern is that parts like complex electronics are not proprietary, it's OK having custom firmware code, but not so good having a specific part very custom made. e.g. the QM dual boiler Gicar had some customised fw code for QM, but it was still a standard Gicar unit. and could have been flashed back to same.

However, your right to be wary..
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NobbyR
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NobbyR
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 2,052
Location: Germany
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete
Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo
Vac Pot: N/A
Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe
Roaster: N/A
Posted Fri Feb 28, 2014, 8:13am
Subject: Re: Vesuvius coming to stay for a while
 

My first two cars were a Volkswagen Beetle and a CitroŽn 2CV. Compared to modern cars, they had really simple mechanics. There were a lot of things you could maintain and fix yourself. Nowadays it's quite challenging to even change the plugs of your car, because the engine is much more complex and crowded.

If something is wrong, instead of like taking a test drive, the first thing the guy at the garage will do is to hook up a computer to diagnose it. If the computer says that everything is just fine, even though it isn't, you're in deep trouble. The airbag control light of my car used to light up. The garage tried to find the error, but were unable to. No matter what they did, no matter what parts they exchanged, the light stayed on. In the end, after spending a half a month's sallary, I simply pulled the fuse of the control lamp. It didn't solve the problem, but the light was finally off and did no longer unsettle my wife.  ;-)

 
***
"This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee, when he was urged to ban the beverage)
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CSME9
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CSME9
Joined: 26 Feb 2004
Posts: 287
Location: West Texas
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Mitica Top, Spaz...
Grinder: Rancilio Rocky
Drip: Moka Pot
Roaster: BBQ Roaster
Posted Fri Feb 28, 2014, 9:45am
Subject: Re: Vesuvius coming to stay for a while
 

Click Here (www.bellabarista.co.uk)

Looks like Bella Barista is advertising the new machine. According to web info Vesuvius is a new dual boiler market and is produced by Ambient&spresso which is headed by the previous export manager of Gruppo Izzo in Naples, Italy.
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boar_d_laze
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Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1,335
Location: Monrovia, CA
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Espresso: La Cimbali M21 DT/1 Junior...
Grinder: Ceado E92; "Bunnzilla"
Vac Pot: Royal Coffee Maker
Drip: Chemex + Kone; Espro Press
Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Posted Fri Feb 28, 2014, 10:44am
Subject: Re: Vesuvius coming to stay for a while
 

NobbyR Said:

My first two cars were a Volkswagen Beetle and a CitroŽn 2CV. Compared to modern cars, they had really simple mechanics....

Posted February 28, 2014 link

Compared to modern cars, they were also poor-performing, death-traps.  There may be a similar analogy between the Vesuvius and... say... a Silvia.

A little sophistication can be a very good thing.  

Rich
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DavecUK
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Joined: 21 Sep 2005
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Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Fri Feb 28, 2014, 12:42pm
Subject: Re: Vesuvius coming to stay for a while
 

]

CSME9 Said:

Click Here (www.bellabarista.co.uk)

Looks like Bella Barista is advertising the new machine. According to web info Vesuvius is a new dual boiler market and is produced by Ambient&spresso which is headed by the previous export manager of Gruppo Izzo in Naples, Italy.

Posted February 28, 2014 link

Your right, Antonio and I had quite a few conversations over the years...If it hadn't been for him, there never would have been a Duetto! The Duetto was borne out of a long dinner conversation at Birmingham many years ago. Antonio said "If you can tell us what we need to build, I'll get Izzo to build it. After that he and I lost control over the development of the Duetto, but had a few conversations and e-mails about what could/should be built and a bit of a blue sky chat one lunchtime at my place. one of the main areas was in pressure profiling and why spring levers like the Pompeii produced such good shots.

Of course now Antonio heads the company, so it's easier for him to get stuff done. it's also easier for me, because his English is really good. It will be the first time for me to see what he has done and I know already that there's some expensive kit inside that unassuming case. I'd like it to be good, simply because we need the next generation of machines to start and hopefully this will kick it off. The basic espresso machine hasn't changed much for 30 years, so this is needed. It's also always nice to see a new player in the hi end prosumer market.
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NobbyR
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NobbyR
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 2,052
Location: Germany
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete
Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo
Vac Pot: N/A
Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe
Roaster: N/A
Posted Sat Mar 1, 2014, 2:45am
Subject: Re: Vesuvius coming to stay for a while
 

boar_d_laze Said:

Compared to modern cars, they [VW Beetle and CitroŽn 2CV] were also poor-performing death-traps.  There may be a similar analogy between the Vesuvius and... say... a Silvia.

A little sophistication can be a very good thing.

Posted February 28, 2014 link

LOL. I don't think there's any chance of dying in an espresso machine crash with a Silvia!

You're right, the passive safety of these (and many other) vintage cars was pretty poor compared to all those sophisticated features like an ABS brake, airbags, brake booster, traction control and a reinforced passenger compartment, for example. But they still brought you from one place to another, albeit a bit slower. And I'm still fond of those cars, especially the 2CV. It never failed me and has a lot of classic style. And if your battery broke down, you could still start the motor using a crank like in the silent movies. However, I appreciate the advantages of modern cars as well, starting with the air conditioning, catalystic converter, lower gas consumption, and last but not least safety. Even though, modern cars can still be death-traps depending on how you drive them. Hitting an obstacle at 100 mph is still a bad idea. Sorry, but Paul Walker knows.

(Enough of that off topic talk.)

 
***
"This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee, when he was urged to ban the beverage)
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DavecUK
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Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,453
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sat Mar 1, 2014, 9:28am
Subject: Re: Vesuvius coming to stay for a while
 

Here is some on Topic stuff.

Now I should emphasise a few things.

  1. It's a pre production prototype
  2. I have only had it for just long enough get it on the counter, warm it up and pull 2 shots before I did this video.
  3. I have not tweaked any settings
  4. I just started a new coffee, so still need to fine tune the dialling in of the grinder

However....turn up the sound and listen out for the pump! I still need to open it up....but pretty sure it's the TMFR pump/motor unit inside. If it is, it's a continuous duty pump system!

Steaming, well all I need to say is, I pressed the lever and it almost blew me into the far corner of the Kitchen!

http://youtu.be/yWsG_EUsBNY

Enjoy

P.S. I make no apologies for the music, or the quality of my hastily taken video.
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CSME9
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CSME9
Joined: 26 Feb 2004
Posts: 287
Location: West Texas
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Mitica Top, Spaz...
Grinder: Rancilio Rocky
Drip: Moka Pot
Roaster: BBQ Roaster
Posted Sat Mar 1, 2014, 10:33am
Subject: Re: Vesuvius coming to stay for a while
 

Pump sure sounds different initially, nice looking shot. I am glad to see some modern changes being made to machines.
I think as a whole manufactures should address some basic items which I think could easily improve machine usage.

Low water notification instead of shutting off during middle of a shot, easy access water tank refilling or visible water tank instead of having to remove entire cup tray, Sirai press stats make a visible louder clack than a mater or ceme, not enough room depth overhang on the drip tray to place cup under group, reinforce front panels to eliminate visible group flex in my view it looks cheap, e61 group brass pin/valves can wear out quickly and squeak-perhaps a better material maybe a roller design, boiler vacuum valves spit droplets of water near electronics change to the silicone hose type that should be a requirement, easy to grab and remove water tanks, 3L larger water tanks especially on an HX, boiler drain taps.

Improve the exterior looks of the machines instead of the typical chrome box
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