Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: Espresso Machines
Breville DB quality compared to HX E 61 Group
Commercial Equipment
Nuova Simonelli, La Marzocco, Rancilio. Nationwide installation. Instant financing options.
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Breville DB...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 1 of 3 last page next page
Author Messages
Bman
Senior Member


Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 258
Location: Johnstown, PA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Quickmill Anita
Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly
Vac Pot: Nope, Bodum Press
Drip: Not any more
Roaster: I-Roast, Behmor 1600
Posted Wed Mar 12, 2014, 11:49am
Subject: Breville DB quality compared to HX E 61 Group
 

Hi All, I was looking into the new Breville DB machine and wondering what the difference in shot quality is between a E61 group HX machine, like my Anita?  I read that there is like a 6 minute warm up which would be great!  Does anyone have any expereince with the Breville and the HX ones to comment?

Thanks
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
biochemgawd
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Mar 2006
Posts: 85
Location: Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: BDB
Grinder: Vario
Posted Wed Mar 12, 2014, 12:29pm
Subject: Re: Breville DB quality compared to HX E 61 Group
 

You have unwittingly stepped on a hornet's nest with your question as there are very polarized opinions here on this machine!

FWIW, I have owned 2 Breville 900s for over 2 years now (home and office) and pulled several thousand shots with each. Feature-wise and stability/repeatability-wise it can't be beat for the price - and in some ways at a much higher price. Long-term reliability is still somewhat of an open question but Breville has been (in contrast to the past) very responsive with issues, even replacing machines that are out of warranty.

In comparison to the more expensive HX machines, the Breville DB is more of a consumer appliance, but a really excellent one in my opinion .

Gratuitous pic of shot 4200...

I would wait at least 20 mins before pulling a shot from cold - I usually wait 30 at least. If you do pull a shot once it reaches temp (6mins), you can run some water through the grouphead and portafilter to help equalize things. Since you can set the machine to auto-start before you wake up, there is really no need to do this.

biochemgawd: BDBvarioMar9.jpg
(Click for larger image)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
uscfroadie
Senior Member
uscfroadie
Joined: 2 Aug 2008
Posts: 440
Location: San Antonio
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: GS/3 Strada MP, BDB; owned...
Grinder: K30 Vario, Forte, Zass and...
Vac Pot: Nope
Drip: Nope
Roaster: owned Behmor
Posted Wed Mar 12, 2014, 12:51pm
Subject: Re: Breville DB quality compared to HX E 61 Group
 

I've had a PID'd Quickmill Alexia, a Vetrano (HX), two Creminas, two Gaggia Factories, and a La Cimbali Junior.  ALL of these are capable of making great espresso when paired with a suitable grinder.

Having said that, yes, the Breville does go from a dead start at ~70F degrees to 200F in 6 minutes, almost on the nose.  If you aren't using a bottomless portafilter, you'll need to flush a couple ounces to get the portafilter up to temp.  So, at ~7 minutes, you are ready to go.  The thing produces some of the driest steam I've seen on any machine I've owned.  While it's not a fast steamer, the ~30 seconds it takes for me to steam for a 5 ounce cappuccino is reasonable, though Big Gulp latte sized drinks will take a while, but you'll have dry steam the entire time.  Also, the rebound on the machine is really quick (measured with my Kill-A-Watt), both for the brew AND steam boiler.  

As for in the cup quality, it flat out rocks...and if you are so inclined, you can do pressure profiling by venting pressure out of the hot water tap since the brew boiler is what feeds it.  Speaking of the brew boiler, the reason the recovery is so fast is because it is fed by a heat exchanger off the steam boiler.

The noise level (vibe pump) will be nothing new to you.  Having an Ulka vibe pump, you'll recognize and be very familiar with the sound.

One downside of the machine (for me) is that it takes almost no skill to get a great shot.  If you can dose, distribute, and tamp, you're pretty much there.  For me, it's just not as much fun to use as a lever, but then again, when you are half asleep in the morning Jones'ing for your first cup, it's nice to have an idiot-proof machine ready to go.

The fact that you do not have to do cooling flushes (HX) or warming flushes (PID'd E61) means you'll refill the water reservoir far less often...you'll also not need to empty the drip tray as often.  There is something to be said for having the boiler sitting right on top of the grouphead versus in a boiler in back of a faceplate with nothing more than a little supply line feeding water to a grouphead that is on the opposite side of that faceplate.

As for your Anita, I'm sure you are fully aware you can run it off an electrical timer ($30-$35 from Home Depot/Lowe's).  The only downside there is if you want a shot and your machine is not on, you are waiting a lot longer than 7 minutes for the machine to warm up.

In short, in proper hands, with all other things being equal, the BDB, Anita/Vetrano/Andreja Premium, Cimbali Junior, and PIDíd Alexia all produce extremely similar shots that you cannot separate from the others.  The difference comes in the routine.

If you donít mind my asking, what do you not like about your Anita?

Pic of this morning's cappuccino

uscfroadie: Tulip.jpg
(Click for larger image)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Bman
Senior Member


Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 258
Location: Johnstown, PA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Quickmill Anita
Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly
Vac Pot: Nope, Bodum Press
Drip: Not any more
Roaster: I-Roast, Behmor 1600
Posted Thu Mar 13, 2014, 4:42am
Subject: Re: Breville DB quality compared to HX E 61 Group
 

I love my Anita very much, but I was looking at the double boilers and something with a more stable temp as the cooling flushes can be a drag.  And then the warmup time of 30 minutes.  I also like to look and see what new items are coming on the market, but I like advice from those with firsthand experience too.

Thanks
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,947
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Thu Mar 13, 2014, 3:14pm
Subject: Re: Breville DB quality compared to HX E 61 Group
 

Cooling flushes, warming flushes, cleaning flushes, you are flushed if you do and flushed if you don't.

If a consumer appliance meets your needs, fine but all machines need to stabilize at temp and that does not happen in 6 minutes.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
SStones
Senior Member
SStones
Joined: 24 Nov 2012
Posts: 506
Location: Canada
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Giga 5, ECM Giotto, Rocket...
Grinder: Anfim Milano-Best
Vac Pot: No  :(
Drip: Some $30 thing from Walmart
Roaster: I buy pre-roasted.
Posted Thu Mar 13, 2014, 5:33pm
Subject: Re: Breville DB quality compared to HX E 61 Group
 

If a salesperson wants you to believe that a machine has a warm-up time of six minutes, see if they're willing to prove it in the showroom. If you can really enjoy the coffee it produces, then it might be the perfect machine for you.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
uscfroadie
Senior Member
uscfroadie
Joined: 2 Aug 2008
Posts: 440
Location: San Antonio
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: GS/3 Strada MP, BDB; owned...
Grinder: K30 Vario, Forte, Zass and...
Vac Pot: Nope
Drip: Nope
Roaster: owned Behmor
Posted Thu Mar 13, 2014, 6:18pm
Subject: Re: Breville DB quality compared to HX E 61 Group
 

SStones Said:

If a salesperson wants you to believe that a machine has a warm-up time of six minutes, see if they're willing to prove it in the showroom. If you can really enjoy the coffee it produces, then it might be the perfect machine for you.

Posted March 13, 2014 link

It's actually 7 minutes when you include flushing 2 ounces to fully warm the portafilter, but who's counting.  You could do the salesman routine or you could come over to my house and I'll prove it to you, like I have for others.  It's hard to believe, I know.  I for the first year and a half it was out heard the stories about this and laughed saying, there is no way that is possible.  No way can it be faster from a dead stop than my Cremina.  But I was wrong...

I have a knockoff Fluke and a bottomless portafilter.  Anyone care to send me a Scace (just need the basket with the K-type thermocouple to prove it?  I'll pay shipping both ways, and I'll make a video from a dead start (under 80 degrees displaying on the PID depending on the temp in the house in the morning) to prove it.

In 7 minutes on my Vetrano with the EricS grouphead thermometer installed I'd be hard pressed to get grouphead temps in the upper 120s!

Hey, I was a basher too...I totally understand where the disbelief is coming from.  Been there, done that.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Metatron
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Nov 2011
Posts: 73
Location: Calgary, Canada
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: BDB900
Grinder: Vario
Posted Thu Mar 13, 2014, 6:37pm
Subject: Re: Breville DB quality compared to HX E 61 Group
 

calblacksmith Said:

Cooling flushes, warming flushes, cleaning flushes, you are flushed if you do and flushed if you don't.

If a consumer appliance meets your needs, fine but all machines need to stabilize at temp and that does not happen in 6 minutes.

Posted March 13, 2014 link

Actually, the BDB does come up to temperature in 6 minutes. The group, brew water and steam are ALL at temp. If you give it 10 minutes, the PF is also fully up to the group temperature. So, as uscfroadie says, if you pull a warming flush to heat the PF, you can have an excellent espresso 7 - 8 minutes after turn on from cold.

From a convenience point of view, it can't be beaten. Extremely easy to use, as capable as any of the flat temperature profile double boilers like the Alex Duetto and you don't have to install an overhead crane in the kitchen to move it around. So far, Breville's service and support has been exemplary. Mine is one of the original batch purchased in Oct 2011 and has had no problems except for the OPV which I adjusted myself. It has 3300 shots or so. I would take a BDB over a Duetto any day, and I have used both.

At 4 or so shots per day, I do not need the extra hassle of a commercial machine.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
dwRK
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Sep 2013
Posts: 92
Location: Houston
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Thu Mar 13, 2014, 8:46pm
Subject: Re: Breville DB quality compared to HX E 61 Group
 

I guess all the plastics help :)

Less losses through conduction and convection! Plus smaller boilers so easy to heat up.

I'm taking a serious look at 920...they're selling this $1500 the other side of the world...
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
bossman
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Dec 2013
Posts: 100
Location: Iowa
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Mini Vivladi II
Grinder: Baratza Vario-W
Drip: Cuisinart
Roaster: Soon I hope
Posted Fri Mar 14, 2014, 5:11am
Subject: Re: Breville DB quality compared to HX E 61 Group
 

I was looking very hard at the 920.  I asked SCG to price match Idrinkcoffee's price, which would be about $1074 USD I think since its listed for $1199 CAN and had they done it I would have bought it.  As expected they declined though.  I just had my Breville Smart grinder fail after about 3 weeks of light use and I just returned it instead of asking for a new one, very disappointed really great features but the motor was WAY underpowered.  I was using it as a brew grinder.  After that I ponied up and ordered a Vivaldi Mini II.  I didn't want to take the chance on another Breville product.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
showing page 1 of 3 last page next page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Breville DB...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Find the Right Machine...
Package deals on the best machines from Izzo, Quick Mill, Rocket, La Marzocco & more.
www.clivecoffee.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.387845993042)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+