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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Shots blonde in...  
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thepilgrimsdream
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Joined: 16 Dec 2013
Posts: 39
Location: Philly
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Wed May 7, 2014, 9:30pm
Subject: Shots blonde in 5 seconds at home?
 

Beans - (fresh roasted at my shop, tested on a la marzocco)
Grinder - Super Jolly
Machine - Rancilio S27
Double portafilter
Time - 24 sec
Weight - 2 oz

So I can pull great shots at work, but at home my shots blonde in about 5 seconds.

I had my machine recently serviced, they claimed it was set to 9 bars of pressure and I have the boiler pressure at 1.3.

With a kitchen thermometer the espresso comes out at 180 deg and the hot water dispenser around 205.

My variables seem to be not knowing the exact pressure, temperature and condition of my grinder blades(just ordered a new pair). I hope to build a diy pressure gauge tomorrow.

Any suggestions on what it could be or how to better calculate the variables?

Thanks
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frcn
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frcn
Joined: 23 Dec 2001
Posts: 3,407
Location: Northern California
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Vibiemme Domobar Double
Grinder: Mazzer Kony, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Hario, 2 Cory pots, 1 Cory...
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Bunn A10 mod...
Roaster: computer controlled Hottop,...
Posted Wed May 7, 2014, 9:43pm
Subject: Re: Shots blonde in 5 seconds at home?
 

If the burrs are suspect then all other comments are going to be so general that they are nearly without value- we can talk dose, distribution, and tamp for a month, but without a grinder of known quality and performance then it is all just wasted time and effort.

The three rules of espresso are grinder, grinder, grinder

 
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thepilgrimsdream
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Joined: 16 Dec 2013
Posts: 39
Location: Philly
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Thu May 8, 2014, 7:17pm
Subject: Re: Shots blonde in 5 seconds at home?
 

Got my new burrs, my shots taste a lot sweeter and the flavor has opened up, so yes I needed to new burrs, but unfortunately my shots are still blonding early :/
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boar_d_laze
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Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1,261
Location: Monrovia, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Cimbali M21 DT/1 Junior...
Grinder: Ceado E92; "Bunnzilla"
Vac Pot: Royal Coffee Maker
Drip: Chemex + Kone; Espro Press
Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Posted Thu May 8, 2014, 7:27pm
Subject: Re: Shots blonde in 5 seconds at home?
 

thepilgrimsdream Said:

Got my new burrs, my shots taste a lot sweeter and the flavor has opened up, so yes I needed to new burrs, but unfortunately my shots are still blonding early :/

Posted May 8, 2014 link

Some questions for you:

Weight of dose?
Time to the blond point?
Weight (not volume) of shot?

Does the stream still exhibit "tiger striping," at the "blond point?"

Would you describe your blond point as tan, white, or translucent?

How much crema in the stream?
How much crema in the cup?

How much post-roast rest on the beans?

If you're using a naked pf, what are your observations regarding channeling?
If you're using a spouted pf, what are your observations regarding the bending of the stream(s)?

Rich
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z0mbie
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z0mbie
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 360
Location: Online
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Fri May 9, 2014, 1:06am
Subject: Re: Shots blonde in 5 seconds at home?
 

Rich, I've noticed myself that every since I started letting the beans rest for longer (about a week), my shots begin to blond towards the end of the shot, whereas before the shots would barely show amt signs of blonding throughout the shot.  Now it could be the varietal since I rarely use the same lb of beans from batch to batch.

I should also note I use the LCM and the Cremina quite interchangeably, as my prep is identical and the shots are indistinguishable between the machines (at least to me). I use the same basket, naked pf, and grinds.  I've pulled simultaneous shots literally side by side.  

So I'm curious what the most significant factor are for blonding behavior.  My guess would be the roast itself and that lighter roasts don't blond (city), or not noticeably.
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boar_d_laze
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1,261
Location: Monrovia, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Cimbali M21 DT/1 Junior...
Grinder: Ceado E92; "Bunnzilla"
Vac Pot: Royal Coffee Maker
Drip: Chemex + Kone; Espro Press
Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Posted Fri May 9, 2014, 6:52am
Subject: Re: Shots blonde in 5 seconds at home?
 

z0mbie Said:

Rich, I've noticed myself that every since I started letting the beans rest for longer (about a week), my shots begin to blond towards the end of the shot, whereas before the shots would barely show amt signs of blonding throughout the shot.  Now it could be the varietal since I rarely use the same lb of beans from batch to batch.

I should also note I use the LCM and the Cremina quite interchangeably, as my prep is identical and the shots are indistinguishable between the machines (at least to me). I use the same basket, naked pf, and grinds.  I've pulled simultaneous shots literally side by side.  

So I'm curious what the most significant factor are for blonding behavior.  My guess would be the roast itself and that lighter roasts don't blond (city), or not noticeably.

Posted May 9, 2014 link

Hi Scotty,

I'm very flattered that you asked me, rather than addressing the question to the board -- although let's hope mine isn't the only answer.  

I use blonding as a visual check on the level of extraction; a way of cutting the shot before over-extraction; using the calculation that a certain appearance roughly equals a certain level of extraction.  

Your observation that blonding occurs earlier at the end of shots made with well rested coffee than with very fresh coffee is PFA (pretty darn acute); and is the flip side of "too much crema and too thick a stream from too fresh beans).  If you didn't already know, you could read between the lines and guess I like my espresso beans with a couple more days of rest than many other people do.  

Because you're right about blonding changing with rest, I asked Dan about roast date as a way of nailing down that particular variable.  

(My take on the blonding process in general is probably the same as yours and Dan's and anyone else participating in this thread.  So, just for the sake of those who may  be lurking... ) With the exception of the disappearance of "tiger striping," it's more about the process of getting lighter than nailing any particular color in particular -- with some qualification.  As a general rule, I prefer my normales on the border of ristretto (and vice versa), so there's usually some striping and a great deal of tan left in the stream, but seldom a show of white nor transparency.

Watching the stream for color change is also helpful because it focuses your attention on what's going on with the coffee itself, rather than your watch or one of the gauges.  I'm not sure what I have to offer to Dan, because he's a professional and probably pulls more shots in a week than I do in a year.  

Sometimes when people write posts they don't give important information because they don't know what it is; but occasionally, they omit it because they assume you know -- and that's what's going on here.  If there's any chance we can help Dan, it won't happen without time and weight measurements and his seat of the pants observations.  

Rich
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