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Rocket R58, getting loud during preinfusion, then quiets down during shot?
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benpiff
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Posted Thu Jun 19, 2014, 10:06am
Subject: Rocket R58, getting loud during preinfusion, then quiets down during shot?
 

Hi guys, since going to SCAA and having some nice conversations with Andrew at Rocket, my R58 has started getting quite loud except when the pump reaches full pressure during a shot. I plan on taking the case off and making sure all the connections are tight, but I can't imagine what could have changed. As it is now, probably louder than any vib pump machine I've owned. And coming from an Expobar Brewtus III-R, I've never really been content with the volume of the R58. I've emailed Rocket shortly after getting the machine, and more recently, the answers have always been "the machine seems fine, I wouldn't be concerned about the noise".

But has anyone experienced this noise? Or come up with a solution for reducing pump noise?

Por ejemplo:
A shot in April at normal volume http://youtu.be/7DDNgGOHrQI
A shot in May http://youtu.be/wty9Yy09i-c
A shot in June http://youtu.be/X4GQ7rCZ9jg

 
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frcn
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Posted Thu Jun 19, 2014, 11:29am
Subject: Re: Rocket R58, getting loud during preinfusion, then quiets down during shot?
 

If you have put hands to various outer areas ()press on gauges, side panels, etc.) and the noise does not abate, then It does sound like a metal mesh covered hose vibrating on a panel or maybe a lose hardware item like a loose locknut. Open it up and I think you will find the source.

 
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DavecUK
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Posted Thu Jun 19, 2014, 6:10pm
Subject: Re: Rocket R58, getting loud during preinfusion, then quiets down during shot?
 

benpiff Said:

Hi guys, since going to SCAA and having some nice conversations with Andrew at Rocket, my R58 has started getting quite loud except when the pump reaches full pressure during a shot. I plan on taking the case off and making sure all the connections are tight, but I can't imagine what could have changed. As it is now, probably louder than any vib pump machine I've owned. And coming from an Expobar Brewtus III-R, I've never really been content with the volume of the R58. I've emailed Rocket shortly after getting the machine, and more recently, the answers have always been "the machine seems fine, I wouldn't be concerned about the noise".

But has anyone experienced this noise?

Posted June 19, 2014 link

It's called cavitation and in the last Video sounds like it's getting quite bad. A little won't hurt the pump, but if it's a lot like in the last Video and it happens all the time, then the graphite spalls off the vanes and the pump is damaged. You can see the pressure varying when it happens. You don't say if this always happens every shot, but if I assume it does, am I correct?

The cavitation can be for 2 main reasons if it happens all the time and is quite common for it to stop once the pressure rises e.g. portafilter and preinfusion chamber fills. What you are experiencing does not appear to be normal.
  1. There is insufficient flow to the pump...perhaps there is a blockage somewhere?
  2. The pump is defective and is getting worse.

I am assuming you purchased the machine in April so it's still under warranty ?? If when you open the machine there is no kinked feed hose to the pump, or obvious blockage....then contact your vendor and ask for a replacement pump....you only need the brass pump head, the motor sounds fine.

P.S. I have made 2 assumptions die to lack of information, perhaps you can confirm if I am correct, or add some more detail
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calblacksmith
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Posted Fri Jun 20, 2014, 6:31am
Subject: Re: Rocket R58, getting loud during preinfusion, then quiets down during shot?
 

honestly, I don't hear anything wrong. It could be something starting to vibrate I guess. The rotary pump on my ECM is MUCH louder, more than a vibe pump and it is mostly due to how it was mounted in the machine so that the machine acts as a speaker cone for the noise. Do check for kinked lines and loose metal panels when the machine is running, it should be pretty easy to find.

The La Cimbali I have is nearly noiseless but it is side tracked at the moment for a bad 3 way valve. Everything works but the water does not flow to the group head when you try to brew, the pressure just builds and stays behind the valve.

 
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DavecUK
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Posted Fri Jun 20, 2014, 7:17am
Subject: Re: Rocket R58, getting loud during preinfusion, then quiets down during shot?
 

calblacksmith Said:

honestly, I don't hear anything wrong. It could be something starting to vibrate I guess. The rotary pump on my ECM is MUCH louder, more than a vibe pump and it is mostly due to how it was mounted in the machine so that the machine acts as a speaker cone for the noise. Do check for kinked lines and loose metal panels when the machine is running, it should be pretty easy to find..

Posted June 20, 2014 link

Cal, look at the pressure gauge.....
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Augsburg57
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Posted Sat Jun 21, 2014, 7:05am
Subject: Re: Rocket R58, getting loud during preinfusion, then quiets down during shot?
 

I have a R58, and it is over a year and a half old.  Based on my grinder counter, I've pulled about 1,700 shots through it.  It sounds nothing like your later videos.  You definately have a problem.  Cavitation of the pump sounds like a good line of inquiry.  Are you plumbed in?  Could you have a kink in your water supply line?
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schwaggy
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Posted Sat Jun 21, 2014, 8:45am
Subject: Re: Rocket R58, getting loud during preinfusion, then quiets down during shot?
 

Are you plumbed in with a pressure regulator? If so, as a test, try to adjust your regulator higher and your pump bypass valve lower - or the opposite. If you don't have a regulator, or you're running off the internal tank, adjust your pump's bypass valve up and down while it's running, then set for your optimum 9bar. I had horrible cavitation in my Duetto and simply getting the balance right between input line pressure and pump pressure adjustment finally solved it. It was simply a matter of playing around until I got it in a zone and the cavitation went away. At the very least play around with your pump and see if you can make it stop doing this while adjusting the pressure.
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benpiff
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benpiff
Joined: 5 Feb 2010
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Location: Portland, OR
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Espresso: RocketR58,GrimacMini,Vetrano
Grinder: K10Fresh,LSM FK
Vac Pot: Vario,Pharos
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Roaster: Sonofresco ADR
Posted Sun Jun 22, 2014, 11:08am
Subject: Re: Rocket R58, getting loud during preinfusion, then quiets down during shot?
 

http://youtu.be/5SNK6xblnXA hey guys, check out this video from my reservoir (I've always used plumbed). I finally set aside some time to inspect my lines for kinks, and saw nothing out of the ordinary. But I believe my water filter said to replace every 6 months and I'm a bit overdue for that. Can't think of anythin else that could have changed.

Thanks a mil for your ideas and support!

 
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DavecUK
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Posted Sun Jun 22, 2014, 4:17pm
Subject: Re: Rocket R58, getting loud during preinfusion, then quiets down during shot?
 

benpiff Said:

http://youtu.be/5SNK6xblnXA hey guys, check out this video from my reservoir (I've always used plumbed). I finally set aside some time to inspect my lines for kinks, and saw nothing out of the ordinary. But I believe my water filter said to replace every 6 months and I'm a bit overdue for that. Can't think of anythin else that could have changed.

Thanks a mil for your ideas and support!

Posted June 22, 2014 link

Well at least you've been able to narrow down the fault to my first suspicion which was insufficient flow to the pump. There can be a few reasons for that...

Best checks you can do is

  1. unscrew the water feed to the machine and then open the valve (with a bucket to catch the water) and see what the flow is like from the feed tube at the machine end. if it's good then you know the problem is at the machine side. Possibly a blockage in the solenoid or a problem with the solenoid valve....perhaps something further up.

  2. If the flow is poor, then disconnect the feed tube entirely, see if the flow is still poor....if so try replacing the filter cartridge.
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