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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Kitchen Aid Pro...  
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svanzo
Senior Member

Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 4
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Mon Aug 16, 2004, 11:45am
Subject: Re: Kitchen Aid Pro Line Espresso Machine
 		 

If we could spend our credit anywhere I expect we would be looking at an Isomac or higher end machine, but with the WS policy we figured it was worth a try.

Speaking of the WS return policy, I just returned a 3 YEAR OLD Capresso C1000 Super Auto in exchange for the KA Pro Line espresso machine. I did explain that I was very dissatisfied with the Super-Auto, making many attempts to adjust settings - but could never obtain what I consider a decent ristretto. They only asked if I had the receipt, which I did, and then called down to the stock room for the KA Pro Line.

I was impressed with their policy to say the least. The unit they gave me was previously open, which I viewed as "karmically" appropriate, but never before used.

So I am now a proud owner of the KPES100, have primed the boilers and will give an informal review after a few weeks of use.

-sjv
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thermos
Senior Member

Joined: 6 Jan 2010
Posts: 14
Location: Ottawa
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville 800ESXL
Grinder: Kitchenaid Proline
Drip: Bunn NHB
Posted Sat Jan 16, 2010, 9:51am
Subject: Re: Kitchen Aid Pro Line Espresso Machine
 		 
Does anyone know the difference between the KPES100 and the 4KPES100 (if any)?

I have done a lot of searching on google and I can't find anything describing the differences.

I just purchased the 4KPES100 and am trying to decide if I should keep it. The manual states the "The commercial size brew group is chrome plated brass..." Is this the boilers they are describing? It makes me think the 4KPES100 is not the same as the KPES100. Hmmmmmmm

Cheers!
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davethebrewguy
Senior Member
 davethebrewguy
Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Posts: 1,221
Location: The Brewery
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Fiorenzato Bricoletta,...
Grinder: Compak K-6, Baratza Maestro...
Drip: Saeco Renaissance
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Sat Jan 16, 2010, 10:15am
Subject: Re: Kitchen Aid Pro Line Espresso Machine
 		 

thermos Said:

The manual states the "The commercial size brew group is chrome plated brass..." Is this the boilers they are describing?

Posted January 16, 2010 link

No, the brew group is the part of the machine that the PF attaches to. In the case of a Gaggia machine (and your KA) this part is also the bottom of the boiler but the rest of the boiler, the sides and top,  should be the standard aluminum Gaggia boiler housing. Brass would be a poor material for the boiler in this machine IMHO, this design is intended to work with a material that cat transfer heat efficiently and brass would be a step down from aluminum. Copper would probably be nice though.
The KA machine has been made in a few different colors over the years, I suspect that the "4" at the beginning of the model # might represent the color of the unit.
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thermos
Senior Member

Joined: 6 Jan 2010
Posts: 14
Location: Ottawa
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville 800ESXL
Grinder: Kitchenaid Proline
Drip: Bunn NHB
Posted Sat Jan 16, 2010, 4:06pm
Subject: Re: Kitchen Aid Pro Line Espresso Machine
 		 
Hello BrewGuy,

Thanks for the quick reply. I rolled the dice and picked up the KA for $200. I suspect the person that sold it simply didn't know how to or didn't care to clean it. They may have thought it no longer worked properly. I took a fair bit of it apart to get at all the buildup. I spent 2+ hours cleaning it. It is working quite well and was well worth the $200. $900+ though? that's just crazy. I may sell it as my wife thinks it is huge and ugly. I have to say she is right.

It does have a very good manual with some great espresso tips.

I really like coffeegeek. Great info.

Cheers
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IMF
Senior Member

Joined: 6 Mar 2009
Posts: 12
Location: Richmond, BC
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: KitchenAid ProLine
Grinder: Baratza Virtuoso
Posted Sat Jan 16, 2010, 9:14pm
Subject: Re: Kitchen Aid Pro Line Espresso Machine
 		 

Does anyone know the difference between the KPES100 and the 4KPES100 (if any)?

I'm pretty sure that the 4 indicates that it is a Canadian model. There is no difference other than the country that the warranty is provided in.
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Shot_of_Spro
Senior Member

Joined: 31 Dec 2009
Posts: 47
Location: BFE
Expertise: Pro Barista

Espresso: NS Aurelia
Grinder: NS MDX
Drip: BUNN VPR
Posted Sun Jan 17, 2010, 6:04am
Subject: Re: Kitchen Aid Pro Line Espresso Machine
 		 

thermos Said:

Hello BrewGuy,

Thanks for the quick reply. I rolled the dice and picked up the KA for $200. I suspect the person that sold it simply didn't know how to or didn't care to clean it. They may have thought it no longer worked properly. I took a fair bit of it apart to get at all the buildup. I spent 2+ hours cleaning it. It is working quite well and was well worth the $200. $900+ though? that's just crazy. I may sell it as my wife thinks it is huge and ugly. I have to say she is right.

It does have a very good manual with some great espresso tips.

I really like coffeegeek. Great info.

Cheers

Posted January 16, 2010 link

The Pro Line is a good, solid machine. $200 is a great price and yes they were in that $900 price range when new. It was a little steep at the time, but it is a true dual boiler machine (small boilers though) with a solid build quality. IMO easily a Gaggia Classic of Silvia killer simply because there is NO temp. surfing with the Pro Line. Each boiler stays in a good temp. range for brewing/steaming and it does quite well for both. It makes a great home machine and if cared for (like any machine) it will serve you well if you keep it. It's leaps and bounds better than the Breville you own (according to your info). The Breville might look the part, but it leaves ALOT to be desired in function.

SoS
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thermos
Senior Member

Joined: 6 Jan 2010
Posts: 14
Location: Ottawa
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville 800ESXL
Grinder: Kitchenaid Proline
Drip: Bunn NHB
Posted Sun Jan 17, 2010, 5:50pm
Subject: Re: Kitchen Aid Pro Line Espresso Machine
 		 

IMF Said:

I'm pretty sure that the 4 indicates that it is a Canadian model. There is no difference other than the country that the warranty is provided in.

Posted January 16, 2010 link

Yeah yeah, I am in Canada. I guess that explains it, eh!

Sorry for the non coffee segue but...
I have dealt with some weird differences with KA sales and customer service between CDN and USA. I lived in the US for a while and bought a KA stand mixer while there. After moving back to Canada, I decided that I wanted the burnished beater instead of the lousy enamel coated one that came with it. It turned out that it was not sold by KA in Canada and KA in the US would not ship it to Canada (they will ship to other countries but not Canada as there is KA Canada). So frustrating!
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thermos
Senior Member

Joined: 6 Jan 2010
Posts: 14
Location: Ottawa
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville 800ESXL
Grinder: Kitchenaid Proline
Drip: Bunn NHB
Posted Sun Jan 17, 2010, 6:49pm
Subject: Re: Kitchen Aid Pro Line Espresso Machine
 		 

Shot_of_Spro Said:

The Pro Line is a good, solid machine. $200 is a great price and yes they were in that $900 price range when new. It was a little steep at the time, but it is a true dual boiler machine (small boilers though) with a solid build quality. IMO easily a Gaggia Classic of Silvia killer simply because there is NO temp. surfing with the Pro Line. Each boiler stays in a good temp. range for brewing/steaming and it does quite well for both. It makes a great home machine and if cared for (like any machine) it will serve you well if you keep it. It's leaps and bounds better than the Breville you own (according to your info). The Breville might look the part, but it leaves ALOT to be desired in function.

SoS

Posted January 17, 2010 link

I see what you are saying about quality. I took part of the brew head apart for cleaning on the Breville ES800XL today and it is not nearly the quality of the KA. The Breville also does not seem to have the pressure capability that the KA does. I used the same grind and the same tamping pressure for both and produced a beautiful espresso from the KA. A double shot in about 40 seconds with beautiful crema. The breville could barely squeeze a few drops. I know there are other things that could affect this including the filter but I was surprised.

I don't like that the Breville states in the manual that commercial grind espresso shouldn't be used. It describes domestic grind espresso and commercial grind (between domestic espreso and Turkish) espresso. This sounds a way to hide the inabilities of the machine to me.

The steam nozzle on the KA is also impressive. It cranks out at least double the steam of the ES800XL.

I wish I had known about this website before my purchase of the Breville. Tuition in the school of home coffee I guess.
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davethebrewguy
Senior Member
 davethebrewguy
Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Posts: 1,221
Location: The Brewery
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Fiorenzato Bricoletta,...
Grinder: Compak K-6, Baratza Maestro...
Drip: Saeco Renaissance
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Sun Jan 17, 2010, 8:02pm
Subject: Re: Kitchen Aid Pro Line Espresso Machine
 		 

Shot_of_Spro Said:

IMO easily a Gaggia Classic of Silvia killer simply because there is NO temp. surfing with the Pro Line.

Posted January 17, 2010 link

The KA is internally the same as the Gaggia Classis except that the KA adds a second boiler for steam. The KA and the Classic use the same thermostats and, because they use the same thermostats, they require the same temp surfing. If you do not temp surf the KA you will not be using it to it's fullest potential.
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Shot_of_Spro
Senior Member

Joined: 31 Dec 2009
Posts: 47
Location: BFE
Expertise: Pro Barista

Espresso: NS Aurelia
Grinder: NS MDX
Drip: BUNN VPR
Posted Mon Jan 18, 2010, 2:46am
Subject: Re: Kitchen Aid Pro Line Espresso Machine
 		 

davethebrewguy Said:

The KA is internally the same as the Gaggia Classis except that the KA adds a second boiler for steam. The KA and the Classic use the same thermostats and, because they use the same thermostats, they require the same temp surfing. If you do not temp surf the KA you will not be using it to it's fullest potential.

Posted January 17, 2010 link

The Pro Line DOES NOT suffer from the same temperature fluctuations that are typical with the Classic, etc. I have read that some Gaggias can fluctuate 30 or more degrees between ON/OFF cycles. The most I've ever recorded mine as doing was about 6-7 degrees between the thermostat clicking ON/OFF. Now that is some variation, but nothing to require surfing.

Most people that surf SBDU machines usually have to do so because of extracting/steaming with the one boiler. The Pro Line has each boiler humming along precisely for what each is meant to do.

My routine when I was using it.... let it warm up 25-30 mins. Run a bit of water through the group, until the temp. gauge drops and the thermostat clicks ON. Then wipe dry the basket and shower screen, dose, distribute, tamp. By this time the thermostat will click OFF and the water temperature is perfect, being in the 199-201 range. This is hardly surfing IMO.

Dave have YOU used a Pro Line?

SoS
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