bigm Senior Member Joined: 17 Jun 2004 Posts: 58 Location: australia Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Sat Oct 23, 2004, 8:04am Subject: stainless steel finish-?? HX machines the secret ?
Been getting some parts polished etc and finished and I was wondering how isomac milleniums, ecm giottos , etc and other manufacturers maintain the mirror like finish of the stainless steel.
Does it have a clear laquer on it. I showed a part of a hx machine part to a machine fitter and he wasnt sure but said often if you polish up steel to a stainless finish, with a highly polished finish it looks great (mirror like) but is liable to get minor surface rust depending on its surroundings. He polished some stainless steel for me but suggested i clear laquer spray it to be safe.
Can anyone tell me if this will dull the finish or is it the right way to go, its a steel side table my machine fits on. Hence Im trying to match the machine finish... The polished finish looks great but makes me think i may dull it spraying the laquer on it.
whats millenium, giottos secret. and others with the highly polished finish.???
i currently clean my machine on the surface with window mild cleaner with great results but wonder how my new stainless will go. Hence the laquer question as well.
I see their are a few industrial chaps on the forum who may be able to help.
Edge Senior Member Joined: 17 Mar 2004 Posts: 56 Location: North Florida Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: ECM Giotto Grinder: Mazzer Mini Roaster: FR+ w/ PID
Posted Tue Oct 26, 2004, 7:50am Subject: Re: stainless steel finish-?? HX machines the secret ?
The group on my Giotto is chromed brass. Chrome has that mirror-like finish. The rest of the machine is polished stainless. It's not what I would call a mirror polish; there is some clouding evident in the finish.
Stainless will not rust. Stainless can be scratched though; and that mirror-like finish can be dulled if not protected and cleaned properly.
I think clear lacquer is a bad idea.. the heat will likely cause it to fail eventually.
What I do with my Giotto presently, is wipe it down when it's dirty with a cotton cloth and warm water. For heavy staining, I'll use warm water and Cafiza. Every few months, I use a stainless steel appliance cleaner. The appliance cleaner leaves a silicone layer that aids in future cleaning.
I'd like to get my Giotto polished further, to a more mirror-like finish. The only down side to this, is that I'll have to be extra careful in cleaning, so as to not scratch the surface. Minor scratches will show up much more on a high-polish finish.
bigm Senior Member Joined: 17 Jun 2004 Posts: 58 Location: australia Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Tue Oct 26, 2004, 9:07pm Subject: Re: stainless steel finish-?? HX machines the secret ?
excuse my ignorance.....what is the difference to steel that has been polished..... to stainless steel.???? manuafacturing....dipping etc.....
ie i just had some steel polished up to a similar finish to giotto but it is not stainless and apparently can rust easily ???/ can i treat it ?? to prevent rust hence my clear laquer question.....it is just a storage container and away from heat but next to the machine ..
Bean_Believer Senior Member Joined: 22 Oct 2004 Posts: 30 Location: The Netherlands Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: Espressa Mini (aka E2K... Grinder: awaiting delivery of Mazzer...
Posted Tue Oct 26, 2004, 9:22pm Subject: Re: stainless steel finish-?? HX machines the secret ?
Good one! I've only had my machine for a week less a day... I'm just using soft cloth and water to wipe up any splashes for now... and will have to wait and see if I need to do more in the future. So, check these out in the meantime:
Posted Tue Oct 26, 2004, 9:51pm Subject: Re: stainless steel finish-?? HX machines the secret ?
Just a basic explanation.
Stainless steel:
Corrosion resistant steel of a wide variety, but always containing a high percentage of chromium. Stainless steel is highly resistant to corrosion attack by organic acids, weak mineral acids and atmospheric oxidation (rusting).
My dad was a machinist/metal worker and when he made polished metal cabinets he always used automotive grade clearcoat (epoxy if i remember right) which works great if your not going to have the things near high heat and spills clean up easy from the surfaces. I'm still kicking myself for selling a small table he made me that moved with me several times across the country and survived. Was a work of art and tough as nails.
*EDIT*
Whoops forgot to add that some clear epoxy and laquers may turn sort of milky or yellow with age. Usually the cheap low grade stuff.
Posted Wed Oct 27, 2004, 6:14pm Subject: Re: stainless steel finish-?? HX machines the secret ?
BirM,
emc2serv is right about the metal.
Corrosion resistant; Stainless, not stainproof. In the US, Type 304 is most common. European convntions are different, but have equivalent grades (i.e. 'Inox 18-6', which is generic for % of nickel and chromium). With type 304 exposed 24/7 to the weather a brushed finish becomes dull after 10 years or so. With prolonged exposure to acidic conditions, rust and crevice corrosion are a problem, but this isn't likely in an espresso machine.
As an appliance case, I doubt you'll see any changes over time other than an accumulation of scratches. I'd go for a 'buffing' every few years rather than messing with a fragile varnish.
Posted Wed Oct 27, 2004, 6:25pm Subject: Re: stainless steel finish-?? HX machines the secret ?
bigm Said:
ie i just had some steel polished up to a similar finish to giotto but it is not stainless and apparently can rust easily ???/ can i treat it ?? to prevent rust hence my clear laquer question.....it is just a storage container and away from heat but next to the machine ..
Edge Senior Member Joined: 17 Mar 2004 Posts: 56 Location: North Florida Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: ECM Giotto Grinder: Mazzer Mini Roaster: FR+ w/ PID
Posted Wed Oct 27, 2004, 6:59pm Subject: Re: stainless steel finish-?? HX machines the secret ?
bigm Said:
ie i just had some steel polished up to a similar finish to giotto but it is not stainless and apparently can rust easily ???/ can i treat it ?? to prevent rust hence my clear laquer question.....it is just a storage container and away from heat but next to the machine ..
You could leave it as is. If it stays dry, and you're not living at the beach, the finish should stay fairly decent looking. To give it an occasional polish, you could use Barkeeper's Friend, which is a powdered cleaner, similar to a kitchen cleanser powder, but without bleach.
Another option, as someone else mentioned, is to have the box chromed.
Another option, probably cheaper than chroming, is have it powder coated. You could pick a silver metallic powder, which would look pretty good.
But .. since you said this is just a storage container .. a lacquer coat might not be such a bad idea. This is the cheapest type of coating you could do, with retaining the shine on the box. Assuming it's not going to get handled constantly, and banged around, the finish will probably stay nice looking. Just don't get the $0.99 stuff from Wal-Mart. But also just realize that this finish will likely be the least durable of any of the above, and hard to remove if it starts to fail, down the road.
bigm Senior Member Joined: 17 Jun 2004 Posts: 58 Location: australia Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Wed Oct 27, 2004, 11:22pm Subject: Re: stainless steel finish-?? HX machines the secret ?
thanks all
i may get it chromed.
its thick enough i think.. it polished steel...looks like ecm....very close. but seems like it will tarnish long term.....applying polish in the meantime....
is part of the ecm giotto chromed or is it all stainless. ?? someone mentioned group head was chromed.
i cant tell by looking at it....they both look great..
short_black Senior Member Joined: 3 Aug 2004 Posts: 383 Location: Perth Australia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Cim Jun S1 Grinder: Mazzer Mini, Iberital Roaster: 1/4 share broken(;-() Imex
Posted Thu Oct 28, 2004, 3:50am Subject: Re: stainless steel finish-?? HX machines the secret ?
Just to confuse you all, many decorative metal things that look shiny'n metallic are not just chromium but nickel plated with a thin chromium overplate or some are just just nickel plated. Chrome is harder and more expensive than nickel so thicker chromium plating only really needed if it is a wearing surface. Nevertheless if you take it to an electroplater and tell them what you are going to use "it" for, they will usually sort you out.
Oh yeah and forget the laquer coat if you want more than a year or two of looks and it gets anywhere near something hot.
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