runt Senior Member Joined: 5 May 2003 Posts: 95 Location: Beautiful Colorado Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Señor Brewtus Grinder: Mazzer Mini E, zassenhaus Vac Pot: bodum santos Drip: press pot, no drip! Roaster: Gene
Posted Mon May 5, 2003, 2:13pm Subject: Best decaf not home roasted - Help
Hello all, this is my first post so please be kind...
I have a very low threshold for caffeine. I spent the summer before college working at a cappuccino shop and fell in love with this magical drink. Problem is I get very very gittery with caffeine. So I only drink it occasionally. I've tried decaf in the past, and never had any that wasn't bitter and burnt tasting. It always seemed better to do without than drink the decaf I've tried in the past.
I have a renewed interest in cappas and would be thrilled if I could pull a good decaf shot at home. I'd drink them all the time. I'm just looking for something at least palatable - not amazing.
I know I don't the equipment to pull a really good shot. But I can't justify the expense of good equipent if I can't find a decaf I like. I'm partial to medium roasts - dark roasts start to taste burned to me very quickly.
I read a lot of posts about decaf, but all the recommendations seemed to be for green beans. I'm not roasting at home.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. I'm in Colorado and haven't had any luck finding a local roaster to work with.
jim_schulman Senior Member Joined: 19 Dec 2001 Posts: 3,772 Location: Chicago Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Mon May 5, 2003, 3:40pm Subject: Re: Best decaf not home roasted - Help
Your timing is very good (well, at least for playing guinea pig). Intelligentsia has decided to take decaf seriously, and has a new Black Cat Decaf Blend. The regular black cat is one of the best blends available today, and if the decaf is even in the ballpark, it will be spectacular.
I hope this blend is great. I've been roasting decaf espresso blends for a while, and I've found that most commercial roasters don't seem to take it seriously. So, while my regular blends are strictly also-rans when compared to the best out there; my decaf blend is a lot better. This shouldn't be the case, and I hope it changes soon.
charliebrown Senior Member Joined: 9 Feb 2003 Posts: 73 Location: Portland Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Isomac Venus Grinder: Isomac Gran Macinino
Posted Sat May 24, 2003, 8:37am Subject: Re: Best decaf not home roasted - Help
if I were you I would order your decaf coffee from Graffeo Coffee .They roast fresh every day and more importantly they have water processed decaffinated coffee instead of chemically decaffinated coffe like everybody else has. I was stunned at the excellent quality of their decaf and it produced lots of crema!
rbh1515 Senior Member Joined: 15 Feb 2003 Posts: 1,154 Location: Milwaukee Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: LM GS3 Grinder: Mazzer Vac Pot: have one Drip: no Roaster: never use it
Posted Sat May 24, 2003, 8:49am Subject: Re: Best decaf not home roasted - Help
charliebrown Said:
if I were you I would order your decaf coffee from Graffeo Coffee .They roast fresh every day and more importantly they have water processed decaffinated coffee instead of chemically decaffinated coffe like everybody else has. I was stunned at the excellent quality of their decaf and it produced lots of crema!
I need to learn more about the decafination process. My wife drinks decaf, and that's probably what I should drink in the evening. It's interesting that you state that everyone chemically decafinates their coffee. I have never seen any decaf that has been chemically decafinated--I presume you mean m.c. My understanding is that this is a better process because it only takes out the caffine but that people are somewhat leary of buying it because of "potential toxicity." My understanding about this is that the chemical is very volitle and almost all of it evaporates from the green beans. Any trace amounts left over before roasting totally dissapear. Obviously the processes using water take out alot more than caffine. My understanding is that the Swiss process uses water--does it use any chemicals? Does anyone know if what I said above is true. Is there a good source of info on the internet about decafination? Is there any good decaf that uses the chemical process? Is the chemical process better? Rob
rbh1515 Senior Member Joined: 15 Feb 2003 Posts: 1,154 Location: Milwaukee Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: LM GS3 Grinder: Mazzer Vac Pot: have one Drip: no Roaster: never use it
Posted Sat May 24, 2003, 8:58am Subject: Re: Best decaf not home roasted - Help
Well, here's a web site I just found that has a lot of info on the different processes. I didn't realize all the different methods: http://www.worldwidemart.com/choice/decaf.html It looks like every method uses water. Rob
runt Senior Member Joined: 5 May 2003 Posts: 95 Location: Beautiful Colorado Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Señor Brewtus Grinder: Mazzer Mini E, zassenhaus Vac Pot: bodum santos Drip: press pot, no drip! Roaster: Gene
Posted Sat May 24, 2003, 9:17am Subject: Re: Best decaf not home roasted - Help
Thanks for the feedback. After doing a bit more research I decided to take the plunge and try some home roasting. (Turns out I had a Poppery II sitting in my closet.) I ordered some beans from Sweet Maria's - so wish me luck. -On a side note, this website is a really bad influence on me.
While I'm playing with home roasting now, I plan on trying the suggestions here for comparison.
About the different decaf processes... My understanding is that the water processed decaf uses no chemicals. But in general people think chemically processed decaf tastes better.
Yes, the chemicals used are very volitile and I have yet to see a report where someone actually found significant traces of the chemicals in their coffee. But the bigger issue is environemental. The chemically processesed decaf is not environmentally friendly at all - those chemicals you don't want to be drinking are all going somewhere else...
Here is the link to the swiss water process site. http://www.swisswater.com/home.asp . They have a 'Comparative Decaffeination Methods' link. -Merlynn
jim_schulman Senior Member Joined: 19 Dec 2001 Posts: 3,772 Location: Chicago Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Sat May 24, 2003, 1:26pm Subject: Re: Best decaf not home roasted - Help
A quick note on decaf processes:
There is no health difference between water and chemical processes. The chemicals are removed down to parts per billion levels after the decaffeination is complete, and they break down and evaporate during roasting.
Most MC and Koffein decafs used to taste better than Swiss Water decafs. This is no longer true. The natural decaf people have improved their process, which makes a minor difference. More importantly, the German decaffeinators simply used better coffee than Swiss Water, and most Swuss Water decafs weren't made from specialty grade beans. This has changed. The Intelligentsia decaf Black Cat uses the same coffees as regular Black Cat. The "Water Process" decafs by Royal Coffee (done in Mexico with a Swiss Water knock off process) and sold at Sweet Marias are the same coffees they carry regularly. These are all quite marvelous by decaf standards, losing about 1/2 to 1 point out of 10 in acidity and aroma compared to the undecaf originals. I can tell the difference side by side, but not so easily if I drank one alone.
Basically, this means it's good times for decaf drinkers.
charliebrown Senior Member Joined: 9 Feb 2003 Posts: 73 Location: Portland Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Isomac Venus Grinder: Isomac Gran Macinino
Posted Sat May 31, 2003, 8:49am Subject: Re: Best decaf not home roasted - Help
If I have a choice between water or chemicals, I go with water even if there is no documented evidence of the chemically processed decaf being harmful to humans. Especially when the first water processed decaf I tried was the best decaf I've ever had. Chemically processed decaf may not be harmful to me as a consumer, but it will surely have a significant impact on the environment.
jim_schulman Senior Member Joined: 19 Dec 2001 Posts: 3,772 Location: Chicago Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Sat May 31, 2003, 12:17pm Subject: Re: Best decaf not home roasted - Help
charliebrown Said:
If I have a choice between water or chemicals, I go with water even if there is no documented evidence of the chemically processed decaf being harmful to humans. Especially when the first water processed decaf I tried was the best decaf I've ever had. Chemically processed decaf may not be harmful to me as a consumer, but it will surely have a significant impact on the environment.
Actually less than the water decafs. The water run off from chemical decafs are scavenged for their caffein, which destroys the decaffeination chemical, and the waste is mostly water. With the water decafs, the caffein cannot be recovered, so fish get the dose. This is also the reason the water decafs are more expensive, since they get no caffein to sell on the side.
charliebrown Senior Member Joined: 9 Feb 2003 Posts: 73 Location: Portland Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Isomac Venus Grinder: Isomac Gran Macinino
Posted Sun Jun 1, 2003, 9:12am Subject: Re: Best decaf not home roasted - Help
Ahh, thanks Jim!
I am very interested in finding out more about the environmental impact of coffee growing and roasting. I have heard a lot of things but I'd like to find out more facts (as opposed to biased assumptions). I have heard for example that in some countries they still use DDT on their beans. How can I find out more EXACTLY what chemicals are used in the process of making coffee? (whether it be growing, roasting, decaffinating etc).
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