ARNIEMINTER Senior Member Joined: 13 May 2005 Posts: 2 Location: PALMDALE CA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Andreja Premium Grinder: Cimballi Roaster: I Roast
Posted Fri May 13, 2005, 1:18pm Subject: Milk Substitute
Because my cholestral has risen, etc, etc. my Dr. has been bugging me to switch to skim milk. Not really a problem, except when I'm making my daily 3 or 4 capolattedoubleespressos. Are their any recipes for great tasting milk substitutes (I can use skim for the base) that I can mix in my coffees tasting at least a little close to real full fat milk?
jim_schulman Senior Member Joined: 19 Dec 2001 Posts: 3,772 Location: Chicago Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Sun May 15, 2005, 10:46am Subject: Re: Milk Substitute
Try going 50/50 or more with non-fat, unsweetend evaporated milk (i.e. condensed skim milk). This will improve the foam texture and mouthfeel. You'll find it in supermarkets in the baking section. "Non-fat half and half" is a corn starch, corn syrup concoction that tastes abominable; so don't try that unless you enjoy coffee flavored sludge.
jakethecoffeelover Senior Member Joined: 3 Mar 2005 Posts: 1,036 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Expertise: Pro Barista
Espresso: Gaggia Espresso Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly... Vac Pot: Perhaps in the future... Drip: Insulated Bodum Kenya FP Roaster: Hearthware iRoast
Posted Sun May 15, 2005, 2:19pm Subject: Re: Milk Substitute
Condensed or evaporated milk are the ULTIMATE milks IMO, and in many others' opinions, too. I think it's expensive, however. Don't forget that it about as creamy as whipping cream. That means that it has about the same texture, IMO, as 36% milk. If you want about the same texture as whole milk, you'll do 1:3 condensed milk:skim milk, assuming skim milk is like water. This are major estimations, however, and I'm not sure if it's easy to steam.
They taste good if you get a brand not overly sweetened. But for frothing, they require an almost supernatural skill, way beyond mine. So unless you're off diary, or enjoy humbling yourself, I would advise against it.
Posted Mon May 16, 2005, 6:15am Subject: Re: Milk Substitute
jim_schulman Said:
They taste good if you get a brand not overly sweetened. But for frothing, they require an almost supernatural skill, way beyond mine. So unless you're off diary, or enjoy humbling yourself, I would advise against it.
What is it about milk that facilitates frothing? Is it the fat content, the protein types, or what? I wonder if something simple can be added to dairy substitutes for those who are either lactose intolerant or opposed to the typical hormones and antibiotics which come with dairy products. Jim
darrylr Senior Member Joined: 3 Apr 2005 Posts: 253 Location: Washington Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Tue May 17, 2005, 1:51am Subject: Re: Milk Substitute
nomilk Said:
I wonder if something simple can be added to dairy substitutes for those who are either lactose intolerant or opposed to the typical hormones and antibiotics which come with dairy products. Jim
Well, I do know that it's possible to make a faux whip cream from skim milk, so it's possible the same thickeners used for that might help non-milk beverages foam up. One product I saw used a combination of skim milk, whey protein, and carrageenan. Of course whey comes from milk so you need to be sure that's not the dairy agent you need to avoid. I've also seen homebrew recipes use cornstarch as a thickener for faux whip cream based on skim milk. Other common thickeners used in foods are guar gum and xanthum gum. If you want to do a little experimenting, you might pick up some of each of these (they're all cheap) and see if any or some combination might work. I do know that cornstarch remains a thickener at hot temperatures. I don't know for sure about the gums but I think so. Whey protein I'm not sure either but I suspect not (heat tends to denature proteins). What all these thickeners do is make liquid more viscous, and that usually promotes trapping of gas bubbles.
AndyS Senior Member Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 520 Location: NY
Espresso: Speedster, Silvia Grinder: Robur, M3, Mazzer Mini Vac Pot: Yama Drip: no, I don't have a Clover... Roaster: PIDed Popper
Posted Tue May 17, 2005, 3:19am Subject: Re: Milk Substitute
jim_schulman Said:
They taste good if you get a brand not overly sweetened. But for frothing, they require an almost supernatural skill, way beyond mine. So unless you're off diary, or enjoy humbling yourself, I would advise against it.
Jim, I guess you haven't tried Soy Dream. It isn't all that different than cow's milk for making microfoam. But the taste falls way short of cow's milk. :-(
-Andy S picture page: http://flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/
jim_schulman Senior Member Joined: 19 Dec 2001 Posts: 3,772 Location: Chicago Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Tue May 17, 2005, 6:34am Subject: Re: Milk Substitute
nomilk Said:
What is it about milk that facilitates frothing? Is it the fat content, the protein types, or what? I wonder if something simple can be added to dairy substitutes for those who are either lactose intolerant or opposed to the typical hormones and antibiotics which come with dairy products. Jim
As far as I know, the foam is formed by the milk protein, and folds into the fats and other solids to get the pourable microfoam. Skim milk behaves almost like egg whites, and gets too stiff and spearated for latte art very quickly; evaporated skim behaves somewhat better.
Soy milk has plenty of fat and protein, so the basics are there. The veggie protein may just behave differently.
jim_schulman Senior Member Joined: 19 Dec 2001 Posts: 3,772 Location: Chicago Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Tue May 17, 2005, 6:43am Subject: Re: Milk Substitute
AndyS Said:
Jim, I guess you haven't tried Soy Dream. It isn't all that different than cow's milk for making microfoam. But the taste falls way short of cow's milk. :-(
Iirc, I found it too sweet. I tried frothing soy milk when I visted some friends in Japan, and had no luck at all. On the other hand, their brands tasted quite nice, with the right mouthfeel and not too sweet.
Oddly enough, "Filled Milk," a type of condensed milk that uses milk solids and soybean oil, does froth without a lot of hassle. Unfortunately, it has a rather weird taste, not quite milk, not quite soy, and worse than both.
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