--- Should I get a shot timer? I have a kitchen timer, but it only counts down. Is there a way i can use this, like counting down to 25 then letting the shot stop 2 seconds either way?
Set it to 23-25-or 27 seconds, but you should still end the shot where it is supposed to be ended (color/texture) and let the timing be your 'guide'. If you don't have a timer built in, the counting method is at best only ballpark.
Timers are useful for everything from pulling shots to roasting, and very useful. A good one would be a good thing later on as you delve further in the fluid universe of beans.
Posted Sat Jul 24, 2004, 7:06am Subject: Re: What's a ristretto?
ljguitar Said:
Set it to 23-25-or 27 seconds, but you should still end the shot where it is supposed to be ended (color/texture) and let the timing be your 'guide'. If you don't have a timer built in, the counting method is at best only ballpark.
Timers are useful for everything from pulling shots to roasting, and very useful. A good one would be a good thing later on as you delve further in the fluid universe of beans.
Posted Mon May 30, 2005, 11:51am Subject: Re: What's a ristretto? - a crutch!
It's damned hard to get a 2oz double shot from a double basket that exhibits
In the pour: - tiger striping - thick, even streams that don't accellerate during the pour - no blonding, even at the end of the pour - extraction time of 25 to 27 seconds
In the cup: - tiger mottling - no blonding - half centimetre of crema or more after settling for 30 seconds - dark, caramel like colour to the crema
Mark - I need some quick cross-threading info.
What is the difference between blonding and crema, the "dark golden brown layer resembling foam on top of an espresso shot."
The glossary doesn't show a definition of "blonding." I thought it was the light golden brown that pours from the portafilter at the end of the shot. Part 2: What causes blonding?
"Tiger striping" v. "tiger mottling" does not appear in the glossary, so I may as well ask, "What are those?" as well. Part 2 of this question: What causes them?
See? This is the thing with espresso. Just when you think you're understanding something like, "ristretto," four other basic questions pop up.
Posted Mon May 30, 2005, 7:57pm Subject: Re: What's a ristretto? - a crutch!
okaychatt Said:
What is the difference between blonding and crema, the "dark golden brown layer resembling foam on top of an espresso shot."
The glossary doesn't show a definition of "blonding." I thought it was the light golden brown that pours from the portafilter at the end of the shot. Part 2: What causes blonding?
Blonding is a result of the coffe becomming over extracted. Blonding is a lightening of the stream of coffee entering the cup. It can also be described as a watery consistancy instead of the warm honey consistancy of a proper espresso pour. Blonding continues gradually and can be difficult to pinpoint the exact starting time of blonding. If you have ever seen a few light (whitish) specks in the top of your espresso that is a sign of blonding.
okaychatt Said:
"Tiger striping" v. "tiger mottling" does not appear in the glossary, so I may as well ask, "What are those?" as well. Part 2 of this question: What causes them?
Tiger striping refers to the dark and slightly lighter stripes seen in a well poured expresso. Tiger mottling I assume refers to this same pattern or phenemenon when seen in the cup.
Posted Wed Jun 1, 2005, 7:14am Subject: Re: What's a ristretto? - a crutch!
Tiger Striping: Tiger Striping
Morfious - Thanks for the explanation. I guess I won't know if I'm getting tiger striping in the drip until I can afford a naked portafilter.
When my shot is finished, it seems to have three layers - a dark brown at the bottom, a medium brown in the middle and light, blond? crema/foam at the top. Does that sound right?
Even so, my shots taste bitter, not mellow. I'm so very frustrated right now. This morning, I've pulled 12 shots, keeping everything the same except the grind.
It's raining, which I suppose might have something to do with my problem.
I'm off to Greyfriar's for a good shot and hopefully a tip or two from either Ian or Dorida. (Don't worry - I always reciprocate the tips.) :-)
singforsupper Senior Member Joined: 22 Feb 2005 Posts: 490 Location: NY State Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Fiorenzato Bricoletta Grinder: Mazzer Mini E Vac Pot: - Drip: French Press Roaster: Caffe Fresco-Tony Sciandra
Posted Wed Jun 1, 2005, 7:20am Subject: Re: What's a ristretto? - a crutch!
MarkPrince Said:
Notwithstanding the great current debate, I'm going to toss out anohter answer to "What is a ristretto".
Answer: A crutch drink.
More detailed answer. The ristretto is now the drink I tell people to make when they cannot pull off a competent 2oz double using a double basket. Years ago, I used to think the ristretto was hard to pull off, and that it was the path to espresso nirvana.
Not any longer. It's a crutch drink to me. The drink for people who can't (or don't want to) pull off a great double shot of two 1oz streams into two espresso cups from a normally packed double basket.
It's also a drink that doesn't maximize the extraction potential from a double (or gasp - triple) basket. And therein lies the crutch. It's damned hard to get a 2oz double shot from a double basket that exhibits...
Maybe it's beginner luck (having only had my machine for 3 months), but with my Mazzer Mini and my Bricoletta and bottomless PF (after the first shot that usually goes to my wife who is less picky than I) I can pretty much nail a 2 oz. or a 1 - 1 1/2 oz. double at 25-27 sec. with all of the characteristics you mention: tiger striping, caramel crema, at least a cm. of crema after 30 sec. Either one is about the same to do for me.
I simply look at the hygrometer to check humidity and nudge the dial with a little beginners intuition. I generally nudge about 1/8 in. or so more course for a classico than a ristretto (athough it don't measure... it's by feel) and it has become pretty consistent. Genrally, if the first drop hits the cup 3 sec. after the pump starts it's gonna be a 2 oz. classico. if it hits at 4 seconds it's gonna be a 1 1/2 oz. ristretto. if it hits 5 sec. it will be a 1 oz. ristretto. The tiger striping, caramel crema happens on both types of extraction without my doing anything differently. I really never get blonding. I'm not sure why but I don't.
Aiding in my efforts is a very consistent espresso blend "Ambrosia" from Caffe Fresco and I am usually using it within days 3-10 of the roast date. Therefore, to me the ristretto doesn't feel like a crutch drink. It's just a choice.
--- Update: (a few hours after the post above) It's been about 3 hours since I pulled my morning shots. Humidity was down about 5% because of air conditioning. I went back to my machine to test my statement above. I adjusted the grind just a bit and was successful at pulling a 1-1/4 oz. ristretto in 25 seconds with the striping, caramel color and 1 cm. of crema after 30 seconds on the first pull. I don't know if it's beginners luck or what? I'm just happy to be able to do so. I just know it tastes good and is a lot of fun to do for company. later. I guess I don't understand the idea of a ristretto being a crutch. I suppose the difference between 1 oz. and 1.5 oz. is a tad easier to control than 2 oz. and 2.5 oz because the flow rate is higher and therefore slight adjustments make for greater volume change. It's just not my experience.
Coffee, I must have coffee, And if anyone wants to give me a treat, Ah!, just give me some coffee!
Wish I could say the same! But I'm sure blonding will inevitably occur in any shot, no matter how perfectly dosed and tamped, if you run enough volume through it. There is just so much essence to be extracted from a given mass of coffee grounds.
okaychatt Said:
I guess I won't know if I'm getting tiger striping in the drip until I can afford a naked portafilter.
naznar Senior Member Joined: 6 May 2005 Posts: 137 Location: portland Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Wed Jun 1, 2005, 11:10am Subject: Re: What's a ristretto?
the end result is no more than 3/4 ounces (single) or 1.75 ounces (double) in volume, and the extraction completes in 25-30 seconds. Is it possible that since this is our standard, that ristretto shots really should be relative to this- more of a delay and smaller in volume? We'll have to do some taste testing. Any thoughts?
ellie- I think so. Bars serving only ristrettos bother me a little. What if i actually want a straight double? What does that mean to you? emphasis on straight.
When i come into a place and order a straight double shot of espresso, it bothers me that i automatically get a 1 ounce ristretto- Stumptown coffee.
I was told that it is against Stumptown policy to make anything more than a ristretto. This was fiction by a bartender who wanted to make her life easier by not adjusting grind, and sadly my first stumptown experience.
So, most recently i asked to clear up myth if stumptown would make a two ounce double shot, and one kid looks and says "oh a lungo" I assume 1.75 ounces would be a lungo to this kid too. I hate explaining myself. It makes me bothered that 2 ounces should be considered lungo.
My point- i feel like i order one thing and get another. I thought including the word straight would help, but it turns out requesting actual time and ounces might work better? What are the words for the espresso i would like to be served? Its hard ordering when house policy interperets a double as ristretto.
skithebird Senior Member Joined: 1 Jan 1970 Posts: 100 Location: Evanston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra Micro Casa... Grinder: Rancilio Rocky, Mazer Mini Vac Pot: NA Drip: French Press Roaster: NA
Posted Wed Jun 1, 2005, 12:53pm Subject: Re: What's a ristretto?
naznar Said:
ellie- I think so. Bars serving only ristrettos bother me a little. What if i actually want a straight double? What does that mean to you? emphasis on straight.
When i come into a place and order a straight double shot of espresso, it bothers me that i automatically get a 1 ounce ristretto- Stumptown coffee.
I was told that it is against Stumptown policy to make anything more than a ristretto. This was fiction by a bartender who wanted to make her life easier by not adjusting grind, and sadly my first stumptown experience.
So, most recently i asked to clear up myth if stumptown would make a two ounce double shot, and one kid looks and says "oh a lungo" I assume 1.75 ounces would be a lungo to this kid too. I hate explaining myself. It makes me bothered that 2 ounces should be considered lungo.
My point- i feel like i order one thing and get another. I thought including the word straight would help, but it turns out requesting actual time and ounces might work better? What are the words for the espresso i would like to be served? Its hard ordering when house policy interperets a double as ristretto.
Please let me jump in and share an experience I had only yesterday!
And, let me say from the outset that my personal taste has always run to short volume ristretto, mostly satisfied at home. I also like big California cabs! ;-) To me, a perfect ristretto is the ultimate espresso extraction, but many others, even in this thread, have argued convincingly that some taste notes don't come through the very thick bodied ristrettos. And Mark even has called it a crutch... Maybe it is for some, but maybe it's also become a minority preference.
I've had a running background dialog with Ellie (Hudson) Matuszak of Intelligentsia for some time about whether or not Intelligentsia actually serves a real "ristretto." Their Baristas are actually trained to make what Intelligentsia refers to as a "ristretto." The Intelligentsia ristretto is really the 25 second yield into two shot glasses. To you it would be closer to what you prefer, and what some ristretto-hounds like me would consider a classic or even a lungo.
Yesterday, I was fortunate enough to participate in Intelligentsia's Espresso Enthusiast Class. It was great fun, very beneficial, and I can highly recommend it for those near Chicago. One fellow drove in from Virginia!
During this experience we got to make a great many shots with the latest Black Cat roasting, using a La Marzocco machine and a commercial Mazer grinder. Ellie dialed it in first for the classic Intelligentsia espresso process.
Later in the session, I was asked to dial in the grinder for a "ristretto" using my own process, my own bottomless portafiler, with my own double and triple baskets. Yikes. Perform front of a group?!! With a technique-weakness-disclosing bottomless portafilter??? Double yikes!!
Well, as it turned out I did pretty well. No squirts or messes! Just good solid central pours. And after several fineness adjustments, I produced the consistently low volume shots in 25 seconds you see at Stumptown. These pours were easily 1/4 the total volume produced during Intelligentsia's normal 2 oz plus process. My pours were described as rich chocolate, evenly balanced, having smooth long aftertaste; pretty much of what's expected of a ristretto. Some of this was of course due to the excellence of Black Cat roasted only 3-4 days earlier. And, FYI, it was agreed, qualitatively at least, that the results from the bottomless portafilter tasted noticeably different than similar pours made side-by-side with the conventional La Marzocco portafilter and the same grind, dose, distribute, and tamp process (the bottomless result seemed to have the richer taste, the more crema, and the longer lasting crema...). It was also agreed, surprisingly, that lattes and caps made with the skimpy ristrettos tasted richer, more coffee-like, and that they were actually easier for newbies to prepare successfully!
BUT. At least one fellow said he was a bit bowled over by the thickness and the body of the ristretto style. He said he actually preferred the higher volume pours. He seemed genuinely pleased (relieved?) when we redialed the grind for a standard 2 oz pour. And Ellie herself mentioned that while she liked the richness, sweetness and particularly long aftertaste of the ristrettos, she wondered if they hadn't lost or masked some of the more subtle flavor notes she could pick out (and enjoy) in the higher volume process.
When she redialed the grind to the Intelligentsia standard, and I sampled it -- I joked that it seemed like an Americano!!! ;-)
There should be no doubt that these are two very different espresso styles. Neither is or should be (at least in my in my opinion) considered the Holy Grail.
If you agree with this idea, then you might be receptive to appreciating the quality maintenance problems that commercial bars might suffer who chose to offer both?
The bars typically have enough trouble maintaining one preparation standard over barista shift changes, and despite training, the different barista skill levels. Trying to handle the two, I think Ellie felt, would be awfully difficult. I recall Ellie mentioning that she thought that any coffee bar trying to handle both the higher and lower volume espresso styles would need to have TWO dedicated grinders, one pretuned for each. Plus, I recall her guessing that trying to maintain really consistent results for both would involve constant on-the-fly tweaking that on busy days might annoy normal customers on line for simpler drinks.
My guess is that Sumptown chose to set the lower volume style as the rule for their shop, at least for a while, for it's own personal reasons. Perhaps they did this because of particular customer demand, or because the style of their beans favored ristretto pours. Certain beans show better as a ristretto than they do as a lungo. Victrola in Seattle makes as wonderful a ristretto as I've ever had in any bar, and I think this style is their chosen standard as well.
This is a relatively long post I wouldn't have added were it not for the relevant experience I had yesterday at Intelligentsia.
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