drfeelgood Senior Member Joined: 27 Dec 2003 Posts: 50 Location: Florida Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Isomac Rituale from Chris'... Grinder: Mazzer Mini Vac Pot: 4 cup, Melior French Press Drip: A little pencillin does the... Roaster: HotTop, Fresh Roast + 8 with...
Posted Mon Jan 5, 2004, 3:50pm Subject: Question about Golden Rule
I am a little confused. Please help with solid information.
Some sources say to start the clock when the espresso begins to pour; other say to start when you start the pump. Which is it?
I watched the video that was a link from coffeegeek.com showing the proper flow. It was sort of bubbling out with a thin mouse tail. There is no way that this can extract 2.0 ounces in 25 sec.
Posted Mon Jan 5, 2004, 4:14pm Subject: Re: Question about Golden Rule
When I time my shots the clock starts with the first drop and ends with desired volume assuming the shot has not gone blond. Grind adjustments to extract desired volume for a ~25sec +/- 5sec good quality shot. As long as the shot looks & taste good timing for me is not a major factor. Sometimes a little embarrasing when a guest requests a double and I pull a ristretto.
Noel Mano dell 'operatore> Macinadosatore> Miscela> Macchina espresso
bloocanary Senior Member Joined: 17 Nov 2003 Posts: 344 Location: boston Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: rancilio silvia Grinder: solis maestro Vac Pot: yama (imploded)
Posted Tue Jan 6, 2004, 10:29pm Subject: Re: Question about Golden Rule
the golden rule typically refers to timing from the moment the pump starts ... i guess theoretically from the moment the water first hits the grinds. however, as noted, it's far better to observe the color and base the pour on that. as far as what that color should be ... that's a tough one. it should basically be something dark and rich that *looks* yummy. if you can't see the change, try running a shot for too long a time (say, 40 seconds) and then see if you can tell how it *shouldn't* look.
i haven't figured it out yet either ... the streams start about 4-7 seconds after the pump starts ... it comes out dark and rich, then turns blond within about 7-10 seconds. if i stop it there, my double shot would be about 1.25 oz. what's up with that? oh well.
Posted Thu Jan 8, 2004, 4:58pm Subject: Re: Question about Golden Rule
How about the shot volume? If I'm looking for 2.5 oz (or so) for a double, is that the espresso volume, minus the crema, or does that include the crema?
I'm getting to the point where I can see the shot going blond, but not always, so I am using volume as a guage as well...
What characteristics – in technical detail – are required to obtain Espresso Italiano? The product certification aims at considering the most important aspect: the satisfaction of the customers’ expectations of pleasure. However, the technical specification includes test rules that can be used to answer this question. The following are some important conditions to obtain Espresso Italiano – though these alone would not be adequate to fulfil the quality requirements:
Necessary portion of ground coffee = 7 g ± 0,5 Exit temperature of water from the unit = 88°C ± 2°C Temperature of the drink in the cup = 67°C ± 3°C Entry water pressure = 9 bar ± 1 Percolation time = 25 seconds ± 2.5 seconds Viscosity at = 45°C > 1.5 mPa s Total fat = > 2 mg/ml Caffeine = 100 mg/cup Millilitres in the cup (including foam) = 25 ml ± 2.5
It's interesting to read and nice to know, but your own taste is the better judge (Alan Frew quoted this same site with some changes in his column).
Most say when you hit the switch. It won't work very well for you to time with first drops if you have an E-61 or HX or other pre-infusion machine. These often take 6-8 sec after the switch is thrown before any liquid appears.
The real key is hit the 23-30 second window and still not be blonde. If it turns blonde early, I hit the switch early, and when it stays dark, I have stretched it to 32 seconds a couple of times.
I tend to dose heavier than the 'golden' facts would call for, because my baskets hold 20-22gm of coffee. I have compromised by only dosing 18-19gm and adjusted my pulls to that amount of grounds to end up with 1.5oz of espresso in 23-28 seconds. - My shots taste great, so there is not a need to fit it to some kind of precise formula. If you can...perhaps you could consider barista competitions!! |- )
Posted Fri Jan 9, 2004, 3:22am Subject: Re: Question about Golden Rule
Nice stats,
would like some responce on what italians call correct water temp and the dosage is considerably lower than we use commercialy here in Australia 8.0/8.5 gr single shot 15.5/16.5 gr double
wkc Senior Member Joined: 5 Jun 2005 Posts: 57 Location: New York Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: Expobar Office Control Grinder: Mazzer Mini Electronic Mod B Roaster: Poppery II
Posted Thu Jun 9, 2005, 7:45pm Subject: Re: Question about Golden Rule
ljguitar Said:
Most say when you hit the switch. It won't work very well for you to time with first drops if you have an E-61 or HX or other pre-infusion machine. These often take 6-8 sec after the switch is thrown before any liquid appears.
I was just having the same question. When I hit the brew button, it takes a looong time before any liquid appears while it's doing the pre-infusion. I still not sure when I should start the clock...
brentling Senior Member Joined: 25 Sep 2002 Posts: 881 Location: By the beach in Auckland, NZ - turn right you can't miss me Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: wega, fiorenzato Grinder: Growing collection of... Drip: yes people call me that... Roaster: collection building...
Posted Thu Jun 9, 2005, 8:14pm Subject: Re: Question about Golden Rule
I time it from the time I start the pump. This is one thing that will be consistent from machine to machine.
I have noticed that even between differnt HX / e61 machines the timing on initial drops, and even colour of pour varies.
However for shot consistency I have noticed that each machine seems consistent. On my single group, a good shot takes 10 seconds (+/-1) to start to flow. On my two group, around 6 seconds is the time. On the 2 group 10 seconds probably means a ristretto, or a long pour, due to too fine a grind and / or to much coffee in the filter. A ristretto on the single group is still 10 seconds.
As for the volume from a dribble from the spout? well it's amazing how it gets the volume out in the required time!
Also, I tend not to get to concerned if my shot goes long (as long as the pour doesn't blonde) as this doesn't seem to me to be detrimental to the taste, however if it goes short, it tends not to be drinkable.
That doesn't mean I am right, but that is certainly what I have experienced.
Posted Thu Jun 9, 2005, 8:43pm Subject: Re: Question about Golden Rule
Wes,
I am doing about 27 seconds from the time I hit the switch. It takes six seconds for the flow to start. The Gaggias are a different ballgame.
You are probably grinding differently than I, and other factors involved as well--so your mileage may vary. Practice and trust the Force.
Do not get hung up on "having" to do an 8-oz flush, exactly 30- pound tamp, and using 3-4 day old beans only. Although well meaning, some folks advice (mine included) may not apply to your situation.
Congratulations on your recent purchase, and I hope you have fun for many years to come.
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