Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: Questions and Answers
Espresso being too fresh? (split off from the Establishing Espresso thread)
Stefano's Espresso Care
Repair - Parts - Sales
Factory Authorized &
Trained Technician
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > Q and A > Espresso being...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Author Messages

Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 5,656
Location: Vancouver, BC
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: KvdW Speedster
Grinder: Versalab M3 Grinder
Vac Pot: A bit too many
Drip: Bonavita
Roaster: Hario Glass Retro Roaster
Posted Tue Oct 16, 2007, 12:42am
Subject: Espresso being too fresh? (split off from the Establishing Espresso thread)

fungua_mlango Said:

So I would like to know more about this 'too fresh' bit you say in the captions under the pictures about halfway down the article (the shots you display in the Pavina Bodum cups). I have that exact problem and want to know how to resolve it.

I ordered and am finishing up a full city roast from Cafe Rebelion in Denver, which was roasted the day it was mailed out to me. A month on and I'm still getting a huge amount of crema (too much, as told by Cafe West technical staff, given that I have constant bleeds out the back of the portafilter of my Solis SL 70). What can be done to tone down (and lessen the CO2) the crema so as to get more H20 in the shot? I use those Pavina cups, and usually my shots are a bit under 1oz as the crema would spill over if I tried to get the 1 - 1.5oz shot after the crema settles.

Posted October 13, 2007 link

I have to admit, this one has me scratching my head - I can't see why, after a month, much Co2 stays in the coffee. But let me see if I can tackle a few things

- Coffee's roasted in Denver, packaged in Denver - that's a mile up - it plays havoc with brewing temps, packaging, etc. I wonder if this is a factor.

- the "bleeds out of the back of the portafilter" on the SL70... not sure what that means. I assume you're using the pressurized filter baskets? Try adjusting the grind?

- On packaging. I assume that Cafe Rebelion uses one way valve bags? One thing about these - there's like a dozen or more "one way valve" makers (probably more), and some are, well, less likely to let any Co2 escape than others. For eg, 49th's bags have a really tight one way valve bag - so much so that Vince's coffee bags are always super-puffed up, almost ready to explode. In fact, I'm surprised they don't have more bag explosions.

But even a super tight one way valve doesn't mean squat to the beans' storage of Co2. It leaves coffee - in a great volume in the first few days off roast, and continuing until it pretty much entirely leaves. My own experience with one way valve, non nitrogen flushed coffees (not that that matters much) is that, after 3 weeks, a coffee's ability to have flavours transported from grinds to cup (which is what Co2 does) is so diminished, the coffee is pretty much dead.

However; I'm wondering if you're confusing the Co2 issues I demonstrated in the Espresso Evaluation article with something I've seen in certain types of beans - namely monsooned malabar (and others). Do you know what Cafe Rebellion puts into their blend? I'm gonna bet there's some malabar in there. It tends to have a real "gloppy", huge crema that dissipates pretty fast, no matter how young or old the beans are. What's the texture like on the crema - does it look like a velvety mousse, or more like a dried mousse?

CoffeeGeek Senior Editor
www.twitter.com/coffeegeek www.flickr.com/coffeegeek, www.instagram.com/coffeegeek (you get the picture)
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
Senior Member

Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 11
Location: Michigan
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Solis sl70
Grinder: Ascaso I-2
Drip: Aeropress Aerobie
Posted Thu Oct 18, 2007, 6:22pm
Subject: Re: Espresso being too fresh? (split off from the Establishing Espresso thread)

To clarify, I am using a non-pressurized filter basket (given the adamant and definitely sound suggestion in the detailed review of the Solis SL 70) and have played quite a bit w/ the grind settings on my Ascaso I-2.

Yes, Cafe Rebelion uses one-way valves on their 5lb bags. When it was shipped I don't remember it being full of Co2 in a way like you mention you've seen in near explosive 49th's bags.

Your last point I suspect is my problem. I do not know what they put into their blend, but the beans I know are shipped directly from Chiapas to Denver, if that tells you anything. After about a minute the crema dissipates considerably, leaving very coarse, cakey legs on the walls of the Pavina (sorry, not sure if that's an appropriate term or clear description here for crema residue on the walls after dissipation). It is more like dried mousse than velvety mousse.

Thanks for the response and thought on this. One last point (and I have just listened to the recent podcast on freezing green beans, not the one previous to it on freezing roasted beans) - I was dumping about 1/2-3/4 a lb. of beans into the hopper and freezing the remaining of the 5lb bag....Now that coffee is almost gone and given this helpful article, I'm going to order around to try other beans too.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > Q and A > Espresso being...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Learn @seattlecoffeegear
Learn all about coffee, watch videos, read how-to articles.
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2015 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.230210065842)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+