BrainFreezeBob Senior Member Joined: 2 Feb 2004 Posts: 7 Location: Washington DC Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: tastey, but not when I make... Grinder: sharp, perhaps dangerous
Posted Mon Feb 2, 2004, 11:32am Subject: Hole in My Puck.
Um......I'm new. And dumb.
Problem(s) with shots from my Sylvia: long period before the espresso starts to flow. Once it does, it usually comes out of only one side (I've tried to carefully level the coffee). It starts out as a very slow drizzle (on the one side), then breaks through at about 15 seconds, at which time both sides puke out watery crap. Examining the puck for evidence, I always find a hole, about the diameter of a pencil, the culprit. I'm grinding fresh beans with a Solis Maestro, and using that annoying little plastic tamper. I've gotten some good shots (er, non-disgusting), but this hole problem seems to be happening more frequently. Help would be appreciated. Thanks.
Posted Mon Feb 2, 2004, 11:44am Subject: Re: Hole in My Puck.
Um... I'm not-so-new, and dumb. Try taking that silly little plastic tamper and tamping. Then tamp the edges of the basket... top, bottom, right side, and left side. Also forget 14 grams, try overfilling the basket, then leveling smooth to the top... then tamp as above.
To make it easier, get a real tamper. But to be honest, you can do it with what you have. It may take 9-10 seconds for the espresso to flow--that is normal. Geez--that is a big hole. If you have had your machine over a couple of months, have you cleaned your dispersion screen?
Holes in the puck are curious things... the way you describe yours, it sounds like it's the impression of the shower-screen screw. This isn't a bad thing at all... it just means that you are filling the basket. Some may say too much, but I think the majority (including me) would see the pencil-sized depression in the middle top of the puck as a "good thing" (topical Martha Stewart reference). I always had one with my Silvia. Don't worry too much about the uneven pour from Silvia's spouts... nine times out of ten, it's because the machine isn't exactly level...
I agree with CoupePlus... get a good tamper... especially as you may be restriced with how fine you can grind with the Solis. I gave the same advice the other day when someone was gushing.... grind fine, tamp hard... go for the choke and work back from there :)
BrainFreezeBob Senior Member Joined: 2 Feb 2004 Posts: 7 Location: Washington DC Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: tastey, but not when I make... Grinder: sharp, perhaps dangerous
Posted Mon Feb 2, 2004, 2:34pm Subject: Re: Hole in My Puck.
Actually, the hole apears in random areas of the puck, and it goes all the way down to the bottom of the basket. When it pours very slowly, then suddenly gushes, I think it's from the hole opening up. I just don't know what causes it. I will try to a finer grind and a macho tamping tonight after dinner. Thanks.
BrainFreezeBob Senior Member Joined: 2 Feb 2004 Posts: 7 Location: Washington DC Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: tastey, but not when I make... Grinder: sharp, perhaps dangerous
Posted Mon Feb 2, 2004, 11:01pm Subject: Re: Hole in My Puck.
OK. Late night update (I had a few after dinner goes at the Sylvia, for research purposes, and silly me, I drank all of the results). I think I'm tamping better. No more holes. Now it seems the problem is under extraction (proper term?). In about 25 seconds I get half a tiny illy cup of espresso. Hell, maybe that's a Ristretto, or whatever the hell you guys are going on about. But damn, I could drink 3 of those. And I did. Now I'm on a coffee nerd message board bitching about the produce of my 400 dollar espresso machine. And you may ask yourself: how did I get here?
Posted Mon Feb 2, 2004, 11:29pm Subject: Re: Hole in My Puck.
Yes, technically you are in ristretto territory, but are you still getting crema? Or only black, oily tar?
If it's the former, and you are getting crema in your 1 oz shot, then you are pulling a ristretto..
the next question is, which do you prefer, your old 2 - 3 oz full double pull in 25 seconds( when you don't have a hole in your puck) , or the new 1 oz full double pull in 25 secs?
When I start to get " tunneling" (pencil hole) in my puck, I do one of two things. I clean the shower screen because sometimes the flow is blocked by grounds.. OR... I make my grind coarser and tamp harder, that way, you could still get your full 2-3 oz double, and reduce your tunnelling.
Personally, sounds like your grind is too fine for a traditional double, ( if that's what you want) increase it 1-2 clicks and tamp well...Good luck.
CBS Senior Member Joined: 17 Jan 2004 Posts: 293 Location: New Zealand Expertise: Professional
Espresso: Rancilio Classe 10 and Epoca Grinder: Rancilio MD80, 50 &Rocky,...
Posted Tue Feb 3, 2004, 12:37am Subject: Re: Hole in My Puck.
I can pick this one like a dirty nose!! It is a problem typical of Sylvia. Although the tamp is not the best, the problem is the water temp at the group head.
The Sylvia easily over heats and needs to have the grouphead surfed before a shot is extracted, otherwise exactly ewhat happened to you occurs. Remove the portafilter and hold a mug underneath the grouphead (stops all the splshing), turn on the head and run the water out until it runs smootly and stops spitting at you, this is just the water boiling in the grouphead... then dose the basket and extract the shot.
The water needs to flow through at 92 Celcius. Any higher and the biscuit cannot handle the temp and becomes brittle and the flavour and coffee practically shatter. To cool (quite hard to achive within normal use) and the water is unable to open the flavours and oils in the beans.
Posted Tue Feb 3, 2004, 12:42am Subject: Re: Hole in My Puck.
I have battled researched and resolved the hole in the puck ussue. I had a bad case of it with my livia after I first started using it. First of all you almost never get even streams out of both holes on the portafilter, so don't even worry about that. You can tell just when a hole is formed. The coffee is running out beatifully like warm honey. Then all of a sudded its velocity speeds up and it gets this and pale as it rapidly fills your shot glass. There can be several causes for the holes, and they are a real problem that needs to be resolved if you want good coffee.
This issue is called channeling. The water pressure from the group head finds a weak spot in your coffee puck and finds the path of least resistance. The result is and underextraced shot. The first cause to eliminate is a dirty group (dispersion)screen. When portions of the screen are plugged the water seeks the path of least resistance and comes through the areas least clogged with higher than normal velocity and pressure exploiting any imperfections in the coffee puck if not just blasting away the surface and just channeling through. This can be solved by cleaning it.
The next cause is easy to resolve. When your group screen is wet from pulling a shot, preheating, or cleaning there is a water surface tension across the screan that can cause the water to form a single stream. This results in the same effect as a dirty screan. The resolution here is to dry the screen before pulling the shot.
The final cause, the one that was my undoing, is overfilling the portafilter handle. I tried to fit as much coffee as I could to make a stronger shot. I even folled the directions given on many websights. I overfilled the basket and then leveled it off even with the top of the basket with my finger. The result was when the coffee became infused with water the coffee puck swelled up to the point it was comming in contact with the group screen. This again creates the same effect as having a dirty screen. If you see any sort of pattern or depression from the group screen in your coffee puck this is more than likely one of the the causes. If you are in fact doing this you in addition probably have created a dirty screen that needs cleaning as well. I bugan filling my basket about 2mm below the lip with fresh ground coffee and then tamped. The problem was resolved and I began getting those marbled reddish brown/caramel colored shots you hear about.
BrainFreezeBob Senior Member Joined: 2 Feb 2004 Posts: 7 Location: Washington DC Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: tastey, but not when I make... Grinder: sharp, perhaps dangerous
Posted Tue Feb 3, 2004, 8:50am Subject: Re: Hole in My Puck.
MMM. I'm having a pretty tastey shot right now. Red brown crema. Still a little short (I just can't stop myself from wolfing it down, I suppose from years of constant drip coffee drinking). I adjusted my grind a bit, maybe still needs a little nudge. You could spend your entire day just drinking coffee and reading about it. That's very bad for work from home types such as myself.
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