Posted Sat Mar 29, 2008, 3:33am Subject: Re: Can bottomless be messy?
If your extraction touches any of the machined edges of the portafilter (think of the game Operation), it'll splatter. The more edge contacted, the larger the brown pattern left on your counter top around your machine. I view it as a goal to achieve for myself. Once I'm comfortable with my dosing and tamping skills being consistent, I'll give it another go.
I was fearful that it would be messy, but when I finally tried it, I was surprised to find out that my technique was actually pretty good already. Just needed to be careful about being completely level and making sure the coffee dosed into the basket was level as I dosed.
I think with a decent grinder and decent technique, it should be a minimal amount of splatter. I haven't had any huge messes, just little spits of coffee that hit the side of the machine. So if your current extractions with a spouted portafilter looks fairly solid in color at the beginning and slowly changes to blond, then you are probably doing pretty good and a naked portafilter will help you fine tune any problems without much mess. At least that's my experience. But if you have streaks of blond with dark streaks from the very beginning, you might find that a naked portafilter will be a little messy.
Always? Ha ha, very funny. Just about everyone has to deal with a bout of the spritzies when starting to use the bottomless PF. But pretty soon, as you hone your puck-making skills, the flow gets nice and regular. After that, the bottomless PF is actually less messy than the spouted PF, since it's easier to clean.
kinolau Said:
If your extraction touches any of the machined edges of the portafilter (think of the game Operation), it'll splatter. The more edge contacted, the larger the brown pattern left on your counter top around your machine. I view it as a goal to achieve for myself. Once I'm comfortable with my dosing and tamping skills being consistent, I'll give it another go.
Huh? Sorry, this isn't right. The extraction should never touch any part of the bottomless PF. Espresso oozes out of the bottom of the basket and drips down into the cup. If it's contacting the portafilter, something has gone horribly wrong.
Posted Sun Mar 30, 2008, 4:02am Subject: Re: Can bottomless be messy?
RapidCoffee Said:
Huh? Sorry, this isn't right. The extraction should never touch any part of the bottomless PF. Espresso oozes out of the bottom of the basket and drips down into the cup. If it's contacting the portafilter, something has gone horribly wrong.
Your reply had me take a closer look at the bottomless portafilter that I purchased for my Livia 90. It came with a triple basket that has the filter holes very close to the machined edges of the portafilter (I didn't even realize it). I tried putting a double basket in, and it looks to be much more user friendly and forgiving. More like the one in your picture. The splatter I got with the original basket had me thinking that I may never try going naked again for some time. Now that I realize what was wrong, I'm going to try pulling this mornings shots with the bottomless to see just how good or bad my technique is. = )
Posted Sun Mar 30, 2008, 11:35am Subject: Re: Can bottomless be messy?
Absolutely not-- bottomless portafilters are not messy. Unless I am using the double PF to pull two singles (happens about once a week or less) I always use the bottomless. Take a look at the image in RapidCoffee's reply. The viscosity and surface tension of the espresso causes it to converge into a single stream and pour right from the center of the basket. This can actually be less messy since some double spouts are quite wide and some espresso cups are quite narrow.
An example of how a bottomless can actually be less of a mess is included in my VBM review on my website: "The inside bottom of the body, the floor of it, if you will, is quite flat. After a pull, even if you wait until the last drips appear, there is still enough espresso left that when you remove the portafilter to knock out the puck you will dribble coffee across the work surface. My solution was to get the bimetal hole saw and drill press set up this morning and cut the bottom out of one of the Vibiemme bodies."
The possible mess comes from "sprites." if the distribution and tamp are not quite right, high pressure "micro-jets" of espresso can spray from the basket. Their volume is usually low, but they can make a bit of a mess. Fortunatley, if your technique is decent, there will only be one, or maybe two of these, and they are short lived. if your technique is bad, then there can be more and they last longer. This is why the bottomless is such a great learning tool. With a "standard" portafilter you will never know if these occur or not. if you do see lots of sprites and can't seem to eliminate them, the casue is very likely clumping from your grinder. Try the WDT to eliminate sprites.
And besides, the flow out of the basket is beautiful to see-- quite a show, further involving one of your senses to a greater degree.
Posted Sun Mar 30, 2008, 9:23pm Subject: Re: Can bottomless be messy?
kinolau Said:
Your reply had me take a closer look at the bottomless portafilter that I purchased for my Livia 90. It came with a triple basket that has the filter holes very close to the machined edges of the portafilter (I didn't even realize it). I tried putting a double basket in, and it looks to be much more user friendly and forgiving. More like the one in your picture. The splatter I got with the original basket had me thinking that I may never try going naked again for some time. Now that I realize what was wrong, I'm going to try pulling this mornings shots with the bottomless to see just how good or bad my technique is. = )
The vast majority of my pulls are naked doubles. I prefer the taste profile of doubles, and (perhaps due to lack of practice) I've always found it harder to get a really pretty pour from a triple basket. More talented individuals such as Jon Rosenthal don't seem to have any problems. :-)
But just to be clear: even though the bottom of the triple basket is wider and closer to the edges of the bottomless PF, it extends far enough down that the espresso stream should not touch the portafilter. On my setup (Rancilio and QuickMill NPFs, both ridged and ridgeless triple baskets), the geometry of the system literally forbids it. The espresso would have to curl up around the edge of the basket to touch the PF edges.
Symbols: = New Posts since your last visit = No New Posts since last visit = Newest post
Forum Rules: No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards. No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum. No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum. Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards. Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics. Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies. Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies. Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts. Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
![RapidCoffee: 623_IMG_0990_1.jpg](javascript:ImagePopup("/images/38182/623_IMG_0990_1.jpg", 357, 600, "RapidCoffee: 623_IMG_0990_1.jpg");)
= No New Posts since last visit 