emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,692 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Fri Mar 2, 2012, 2:49pm Subject: Re: extraction help
Is this machine new or old? Have you always had this trouble, or was the pressure good before, but now it's not? Are you talking about group pressure or steam pressure? You have a pressure gauge, right? What's it showing at the time you're concerned about it?
Espresso colors??? fresh beans? pulled shots? I don't understand what you're looking for.
emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,692 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Fri Mar 2, 2012, 2:58pm Subject: Re: extraction help
OK, so I looked you up and saw you just got this machine recently, so you can rule out scale build-up (unless you bought it used). Assuming the machine is new, I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume your pressure problem is when pulling shots. Out onto the next limb...it's flying through the portafilter like the basket is empty, except for the color change? If so, stale coffee or way too coarse of a grind would be the first things I'd consider. I also see you aren't grinding at home. This is a huge problem in espresso making. I can't really see how you'll get much of anything good without getting a decent grinder. Can you save up for a Preciso? It'll help immensely.
Coffeenoobie Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 2,313 Location: PNW Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: N S Oscar Grinder: Vario W
Posted Fri Mar 2, 2012, 3:38pm Subject: Re: extraction help
I am a visual learner also. The best thing to do is look at youtubes for naked or bottomless pours. That will show you a lot of what you should expect. And Grinder is key. And check your email Calblacksmith I need a favor.
Thanks.
Coffeenoobie
Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder. My coffee treasure map... Click Here (maps.google.com)
Coffeenoobie Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 2,313 Location: PNW Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: N S Oscar Grinder: Vario W
Posted Fri Mar 2, 2012, 10:31pm Subject: Re: extraction help
Because espresso is a balancing act. How the water moves through the basket is what brews the coffee. All the factors have to be right and there is a lot of them to control. That is why people are always chasing the god shot and can't get that perfect shot every pull. Too fast, too hot, not fast enough, too cold, choking the machine all affect the taste of what is in the cup.
Amount of coffee, grind of the coffee, how the coffee is packed into the basket, water, temp and pressure all have to be in balance to have a good shot and that assumes fresh beans- freshly ground. Without it being fresh I believe you will not get any crema, the stuff that floats on top of good espresso and gives it the mouth feel that is so different from regular coffee. Preground coffee will not allow you to change the grind because it is already ground. And grind is the most important thing to adjust the speed of the water through the basket. If you have mortar and pestle mash the grinds to a grainy flour mixture (like fine salt in flour) and see how that affects the pull and taste. Also, if you read the reviews of grinders the type/shape of the burrs in different grinders affect the taste of the same coffee brewed in the same machine. It seems insane to me that different flavors are extracted by the way the different grinders process the beans, but I believe the reviewers.
I think you need to read the How To guides on this site and Home-Batista.com and it be clearer than I can explain. Also look at espresso pulls on youtube. I learned a lot by looking at those naked portafilter pulls.
Good luck.
Coffeenoobie
Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder. My coffee treasure map... Click Here (maps.google.com)
yeah...I can see why you don't understand that. You should know that ground coffee goes stale within about 15 minutes of grinding. When you grind the beans, you're drastically increased surface area and expose the inside of the bean to air, so it starts oxidizing at an astronomical rate. If you're not grinding them at home, you're behind the 8 ball before you even start.
General rules are roasted coffee goes stale within about 15 days and ground coffee goes stale within about 15 minutes.
Therefore, to make good espresso, one needs to have freshly roasted whole beans at home and a good grinder. You haven't been following that rule, so despite you trying 3 different grinds, all of the coffee you've tried has been stale (by espresso standards). If you spring for a grinder and some fresh beans, you'll see a huge improvement in the cup.
...and take coffeenoobie's advice and go read the more expert explanations...We've all read them and feel they're really worth the time.
. One "click" of some really nice grinders equals an adjustment of about 0.001" change in grind. That can translate to a 5 to 7 second change in extraction time. it can tkae a few extractions to get it just right. Trying to do so remotely is nearly impossible with a good espresso machine. Beyond that, ground coffee is best used within about ten or twelve minutes of being ground. After that it is considered stale and will lead to extraction difficulties. It also takes a quality grinder. Good espresso grinders are precision tools. The espresso machine is an accessory to the grinder. I can (and have) made some very good espresso on a $12 thrift store, thermoblock machine using a quality grinder. On the other hand, if the grinder is inadequate (a polite way of saying "junk," or at least, not suitable for espresso) will lead to bad beverages and difficulties even with a $3000 espresso machine.
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