JDHarding Senior Member Joined: 31 Aug 2007 Posts: 1,099 Location: WA, USA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Ascaso Steel Pro PID Grinder: Nuova Simonelli MDX,... Vac Pot: None Drip: Hario v60 Roaster: Behmor, Fresh Roast
Posted Fri Apr 13, 2012, 1:36pm Subject: Re: What am I doing wrong with my Redbird?
GrantT Said:
MOST machines (if not all), require a bit of a (cooling/heating)flush to even out temps.
It is possible that the brew temp of the water is dead on to 200, but as soon as it flows into the grouphead it drops 5 degrees if your machine has a cold nose. So, the initial portion (if not all) of the shot may be too cool....but heats up.
Raising up the PID temp may help to bump the temp of the FIRST shot, but note that if you pull more than one shot, that subsequent shots could be TOO hot and get bitter.
You may want to add "FLUSH x oz water" in between the above steps....that way if the entire machine is up to 200, than followup shots would also be good.
Also a good idea. I don't do any flushing, so maybe I should add 2 or 3 seconds of flushing in there before pulling a shot, just to heat up the "nose". ;)
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,652 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Fri Apr 13, 2012, 1:53pm Subject: Re: What am I doing wrong with my Redbird?
YEP, that is why I very often state that nearly all machines require a flush, some to warm, some to cool. My guess is that sour is cold, Redbird likes to be pulled hot, for me, on my HX, that is I flush until I stop getting a flash to steam, JUST UNTIL IT STOPS, lock then pull. E61 GH. 18 g in a large double basket ground for a 30 to 35 second shot (total) as per guidlines from Jeff. http://redbirdcoffee.com/redbirdespresso.html
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JDHarding Senior Member Joined: 31 Aug 2007 Posts: 1,099 Location: WA, USA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Ascaso Steel Pro PID Grinder: Nuova Simonelli MDX,... Vac Pot: None Drip: Hario v60 Roaster: Behmor, Fresh Roast
Posted Fri Apr 13, 2012, 2:10pm Subject: Re: What am I doing wrong with my Redbird?
Just got done pulling a shot.
- Ground finer - Heated to 200F - 3 second flush - Wait for it to get back to 200F - Lock and pull the shot - Created the same 30 second shot, 2.5oz this time, timed from when the first droplets leave the PF.
Again, a beautiful looking shot, but once again it's sourish. I'm noticing, though, that during the shot I'm getting what looks like early blonding. Not watery, but a real light crema color about 10 seconds in. This could be under-extraction. I expect to see more dark color, not light color.
I'm thinking about grinding finer next time and seeing if I can get a tighter pull. 27-30 sec 2oz shot is what I'm aiming for. I don't know why a finer grind yielded more oz. Maybe I didn't tamp hard enough.
JDHarding Senior Member Joined: 31 Aug 2007 Posts: 1,099 Location: WA, USA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Ascaso Steel Pro PID Grinder: Nuova Simonelli MDX,... Vac Pot: None Drip: Hario v60 Roaster: Behmor, Fresh Roast
Posted Fri Apr 13, 2012, 2:22pm Subject: Re: What am I doing wrong with my Redbird?
No, I decided not to raise it yet. I'll do that as a last resort. I'm still fine-tuning the grind.
With the other bean blend I used, Dillano's "Dillon's Blend", I didn't taste so much sour component, mostly bitter and roast flavor. Why then does Redbird have so much citris, sour, acid component in the flavor? Unless this is how it's supposed to taste. I remember Redbird having a real chocolatey flavor that wraps around your mouth. Here all I'm getting is the citrus flavors.
D4F Senior Member Joined: 15 Mar 2012 Posts: 1,190 Location: USA Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID Grinder: Preciso
Posted Fri Apr 13, 2012, 2:46pm Subject: Re: What am I doing wrong with my Redbird?
JDHarding Said:
No, I decided not to raise it yet. I'll do that as a last resort. I remember Redbird having a real chocolatey flavor that wraps around your mouth. Here all I'm getting is the citrus flavors.
Posted Fri Apr 13, 2012, 5:03pm Subject: Re: What am I doing wrong with my Redbird?
Maybe I'm supposed to have read all your other threads so I know what machine you are using ... I don't see it in this post. But 200F is the brew temp .. not the PID temp. Every machine (and where/how you mounted your Thermocouple and how your PID is setup etc.) is different as far as what the boiler temp should read vs what your brew temp will be.
If it's sour - make it hotter ... what could more simple? Just raise the temp on your PID a few degrees and pull a shot, still sour? Raise it a bit more.
I've been pulling RedBird shots for ages and it ain't sour here. Chocolate and Hazelnut all the way.
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