I don't look at it that way myself, but maybe that's just me.
Just the same, I've never pulled a triple anywhere near 3 ounces. Mine are mostly 1.75 to 2.25 ounces (volume)...from a dose considerably higher than 20g But I rarely pull triples anymore.
JDHarding Senior Member Joined: 31 Aug 2007 Posts: 1,099 Location: WA, USA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Ascaso Steel Pro PID Grinder: Nuova Simonelli MDX,... Vac Pot: None Drip: Hario v60 Roaster: Behmor, Fresh Roast
Posted Tue Apr 17, 2012, 6:12pm Subject: Re: What am I doing wrong with my Redbird?
So I've done 2 or 3 shots since my last post. 20g, 212F PID, 199-200F grouphead. Most of them were 2oz in 30 seconds, today's was 2.5oz in 26 seconds, kinda fast.
Anyway, I seriously think there's something wrong with this blend. No matter what I do it tastes gross. Too bright, acidic, fruity, hardly any chocolate flavor at all. I raised the PID to 220F one time, and it only made things worse. So the temp is probably correct now.
I can't think of anything else that'll make it better. I should go search for my old posts when I originally started brewing Redbird a year ago and see if I'm doing something different.
Update:
Son of a.. it seems I always had problems with Redbird. But originally, I had bitterness instead of sourness.
Have you tried checking your temperature beginning and end of a shot? Even using a styrofoam cup to see what happens? Just a thought. Are you able to brew other espresso now and it is fine?
JDHarding Senior Member Joined: 31 Aug 2007 Posts: 1,099 Location: WA, USA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Ascaso Steel Pro PID Grinder: Nuova Simonelli MDX,... Vac Pot: None Drip: Hario v60 Roaster: Behmor, Fresh Roast
Posted Tue Apr 17, 2012, 6:27pm Subject: Re: What am I doing wrong with my Redbird?
Heh. I typically don't drink any espresso on Sundays and Mondays. I don't know why. Too much stuff to do on those days.
I have used the styrofoam cup to test the temperature. Not sure how else I should use a styrofoam cup.
I brewed Dillanos "Dillon's Blend" before I started messing with Redbird, and it came out tasting strongly of the roast, along with chocolate notes. But drinking it was like a punch in the face. It was very very strong.
D4F Senior Member Joined: 15 Mar 2012 Posts: 1,198 Location: USA Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID Grinder: Preciso
Posted Tue Apr 17, 2012, 6:30pm Subject: Re: What am I doing wrong with my Redbird?
I was suggesting testing the temp just before a shot, and just at the end to see if the temperature varies. I know you have tested it during this thread.
JDHarding Senior Member Joined: 31 Aug 2007 Posts: 1,099 Location: WA, USA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Ascaso Steel Pro PID Grinder: Nuova Simonelli MDX,... Vac Pot: None Drip: Hario v60 Roaster: Behmor, Fresh Roast
Posted Tue Apr 17, 2012, 6:40pm Subject: Re: What am I doing wrong with my Redbird?
After some searching the threads, I came across another post I did when I started pulling shots again after going a year without. Turns out the original coffee blend I liked was Velton's Bonsai Blend, not Redbird. It also turns out I was pulling my shots at 15-16 grams. I wonder if I should try pulling Redbird at 15-16 grams instead of 20. Maybe the fruity/acid/bright flavor might mellow out at a lower dose. I know some of you already suggested lower doses, but I'm a doofus and ignored that suggestion. Plus when I lowered it to 18 grams I didn't notice much of a difference.
Oh, if you're curious, the thread I came across was...
D4F Senior Member Joined: 15 Mar 2012 Posts: 1,198 Location: USA Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID Grinder: Preciso
Posted Tue Apr 17, 2012, 7:00pm Subject: Re: What am I doing wrong with my Redbird?
I just read your other thread. Very interesting, dose, grind and again temperature all seemed to contribute. If you test temp immediately before and after a pull, then you will know if it is up to temperature and stable during the pull. I also noted on that thread about making sure that the PF stays up to temperature. I am not really fixated on the temperature, just tryint to eliminate that varaible.
JDHarding Senior Member Joined: 31 Aug 2007 Posts: 1,099 Location: WA, USA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Ascaso Steel Pro PID Grinder: Nuova Simonelli MDX,... Vac Pot: None Drip: Hario v60 Roaster: Behmor, Fresh Roast
Posted Tue Apr 17, 2012, 7:12pm Subject: Re: What am I doing wrong with my Redbird?
I know the temperature is at proper brew temp. I spent an hour or so checking the temp multiple times with a styrofoam cup and a thermoprobe. I cut the cup down so it's only 2 inches tall, place the probe in through the bottom, then pull water to heat the probe, dump, pull more water, check PID vs. thermometer, raise PID temp, pull water to heat the probe, etc. I currently have it as close to 200F grouphead temp as I can get it. When it was set at 200F the water pulled was only 190F at grouphead, and after an hour of playing with it it didn't change any. Also, the grouphead is heated by the boiler because the boiler is right on top of the grouphead. I think they're a single unit. So there's no need to question if the grouphead is cold. It gets very toasty, and so does the portafilter. It burned me last time I touched it accidentally. Honestly, the PID is set very close to where it needs to be. I think 210F is probably a better setting as I think 212F is slightly too high still.
D4F Senior Member Joined: 15 Mar 2012 Posts: 1,198 Location: USA Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID Grinder: Preciso
Posted Tue Apr 17, 2012, 7:31pm Subject: Re: What am I doing wrong with my Redbird?
So you are sure that your temperature does not rise or fall by the end of the pull?? I understand that you have well documented the pull starting temperature by styrofoam cup. Again, just trying to pin down one variable. Some SBDU machine tempertures can change during the pull. The PID function will not add heat enough to stop the fall during a draw, though your boiler size and total mass may hold the temperature.
Sorry if I am not helping, but adding to the frustration.
JDHarding Senior Member Joined: 31 Aug 2007 Posts: 1,099 Location: WA, USA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Ascaso Steel Pro PID Grinder: Nuova Simonelli MDX,... Vac Pot: None Drip: Hario v60 Roaster: Behmor, Fresh Roast
Posted Tue Apr 17, 2012, 8:01pm Subject: Re: What am I doing wrong with my Redbird?
It does tend to fall 10 degrees in temp by the end of a pull, sadly. There's nothing I can really do to change that. It might make some sense as to why the shots are pulling and tasting funny.
Symbols: = New Posts since your last visit = No New Posts since last visit = Newest post
Forum Rules: No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards. No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum. No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum. Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards. Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics. Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies. Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies. Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts. Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
= No New Posts since last visit 