emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,795 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Wed May 23, 2012, 7:41am Subject: Duetto II steam improvement
I was getting a great vortex in my milk with the stock wand setup (and the CCS 4 hole tip mod), and was able to pour nice latte art. However, everyone in my house has noticed that the foam tended to layer on top of the milk.
Last night I removed the plastic tubing from inside the wand, converting it to a "burn-me" (and it did burn me - twice - and yeah, I have a rubber sleeve on order already). The milk I frothed last night and this am was even more wet paint like in texture than before! There's a noticeable difference in steam power too. When I remove the pitcher from the wand, the thin milk layer coating the tip is "textbook". However, the foam still separated a lot in the cup.
I know I haven't posted a video (yet), and it would help a lot to answer this, but does anyone have any idea what I'm doing wrong? Could it be that I don't let it stay in the frothing pitcher long enough before pouring?
Coffeenoobie Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 2,371 Location: PNW Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: N S Oscar Grinder: Vario W
Posted Wed May 23, 2012, 8:55am Subject: Re: Duetto II steam improvement
The longer it sits the more it separates. The trick is to keep it moving and pour soon after steaming according to the videos I have watched. However, I am not getting microfoam repeatably on the Oscar. Despite doing all kinds of things to make it happen.
Coffeenoobie
Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder. My coffee treasure map... Click Here (maps.google.com)
emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,795 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Wed May 23, 2012, 9:23am Subject: Re: Duetto II steam improvement
yeah, I do all that. was wondering if I'm not swirling it long enough in the pitcher before pouring.
I was just reading Randy's guide on stretching and now wonder if I'm going too far in the heating process. I ditched my thermometer about 5 years ago after learning hands-on the pitcher technique, but have always kept going until the pitcher just becomes too hot to hold. I suspect it worked well on the Silvia because the steam pressure was much lower and therefore, the milk heated slower and the lag between milk temp transfer across the pitcher wall to my hand was less important than it is now with the more powerful Duetto.
I'm thinking of making the following changes:
1) switch the steamer tip from the 4-hole to the 2-hole
2) stop the frothing process earlier
If anyone has other ideas (sans video), please let me know. Otherwise, I'll report back in a day or two.
LATrapp Senior Member Joined: 7 Mar 2011 Posts: 14 Location: LA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Alex II Duetto, Silvia Grinder: Versalab V3 Drip: Press Roaster: Local
Posted Wed May 23, 2012, 11:06am Subject: Re: Duetto II steam improvement
I'm in the camp that finds the Duetto II a poor steamer (stock) relative to other machines I have tried. The Silvia I started with even produced much finer micro foam.
However, I do think a thermometer will definitely help you dial in your milk. I have one of these and love it. It is WAY faster then an analogue dial thermometer. Only downside is that the probe is thinner than a regular dial thermometer and will slip through most thermometer holders that attach on the sides of pitcher: http://www.thermoworks.com/products/low_cost/rt301wa.html
I incorporate air on the surface with a whirlpool to 85f then plunge under and create turbulence to 135f letting it rise after pulling into the 140's f.
WiggoNut Senior Member Joined: 4 Jan 2012 Posts: 21 Location: AL Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly, Hario... Vac Pot: Yama Siphon Drip: v60, Beehive, Aeropress,... Roaster: Popcorn Stove Top
Posted Wed May 23, 2012, 1:05pm Subject: Re: Duetto II steam improvement
I will say that when I got the Duetto the steam performance wasn't great, but after you remove the tube it's all good.
Some suggestions/notices (trying not to repeat whats on the other 1,000 forums on steaming):
1.) Check out the click here video from barista lab...talks about the positioning of the pitcher specifically for the Duetto.
2.) If your initial tap, the swirl in the pitcher makes a circle of foam in the middle (looks like there is a small microfoam hill) then you messed up and will have too much of the foam you are talking about.
3.) Don't be scared of steaming, just throw the thing on try to use all the other tips out there.
Video would be nice if you can get one, but I'll try and get one up as well...i'm not perfect every time either though :-).
emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,795 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Thu May 24, 2012, 9:05am Subject: Re: Duetto II steam improvement
yeah, it sure is. Although, I took the whole wand off and then used a small needle nose pliers to get it started and give me a little more purchase for my fingers (it was only sticking out a few mm). It probably would have been just as easy to simply remove the wand tip and then pull it out from there. After I got it started, I just yanked it out with my hand and it came really easy. I suspect it's just as easy to put it back in if you change your mind.
Don't forget to get a rubber sleeve. I've already burned my fingers (mildly) a couple of times, as I was so used to just grabbing the wand and adjusting its position. I found one for less than $4 at espresso parts (get the 10mm one - it's kind of bean shaped, instead of straight). Shipping cost sucked though, so I ordered a couple of other things I needed.
rlevine Senior Member Joined: 16 Dec 2011 Posts: 18 Location: NJ Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izza Alex Duetto II Grinder: Baritza Virtuoso Preciso,... Drip: Hario kettle, V60, Chemex
Posted Thu May 24, 2012, 7:52pm Subject: Re: Duetto II steam improvement
Sure enough, the tube slides right out. Now I just have to be super careful until I get that rubber sleeve. I hope the Joe Pro shop in NYC stocks them.
emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,795 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Mon May 28, 2012, 6:39am Subject: Re: Duetto II steam improvement
LATrapp Said:
I'm in the camp that finds the Duetto II a poor steamer (stock) relative to other machines I have tried. The Silvia I started with even produced much finer micro foam.
Glad they work for you, but I'm definitely done with thermometers, I know the general temps from my hand on the side of the pitcher. However, there is definitely a longer lag between milk temp and pitcher temp change in the Duetto compared to the Silvia, and I've already readjusted my "end point" - which is about 140.
so, here's my report back...
Having taken out the plastic tubing the other day, I've dramatically increased the Duetto's steam power. The next step, which I performed last night, was to remove the 4 hole tip that CCS installed on the no burn wand and put on the stock 2 hole tip. The results were amazing and immediate. Both my wife and myself said "that's what I'm talking about" when I presented the lattes/cappas after the change. Consistent results this am! The micro foam is amazing! And the effect in the cup is "tastes so good, you hate to put it down" (famous quote from my father-in-law)
Anyhow, if anyone is having trouble steaming on the Duetto, I say this...remove the plastic tubing from the wand and switch to the 2 hole tip (of course, YMMV)! oh, and don't forget to purchase a rubber sleeve for the wand, so you don't burn your fingers.
Symbols: = New Posts since your last visit = No New Posts since last visit = Newest post
Forum Rules: No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards. No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum. No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum. Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards. Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics. Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies. Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies. Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts. Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
= No New Posts since last visit 