stumeatsix Senior Member Joined: 10 Jun 2012 Posts: 2 Location: UK Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: La Spaziale s5 Grinder: La Spaziale 12 On Demand Drip: Chemex ;) Roaster: That would be telling....
Posted Mon Jun 11, 2012, 1:03pm Subject: hot portafilter vs cold portafilter....
Hi guys, this is my first post so apologies if it's been done before :)
When pulling shots I'm currently experimenting with a cold portafilter (or basket) and a hot one.
With the hot basket I'm just removing it from the machine after pulling a shot, giving it a good wipe with a dry cloth to remove any oil / debris and then pulling a shot as normal.
With the cold basket I'm taking it out of the machine, emptying any old grind and then giving it a rinse under a cold tap for about 30 seconds, drying it, and then pulling a shot as normal.
I'm just wondering if anyone else has ever done this and what their results were?
The hot portafilter at the moment is (obviously) pulling the best shots as the hot portafiler retains more heat, thus keeping the espresso at a more stable brewing temperature. The colder basket is pulling quite sour shots, not necessarily at different extraction times, but at a lower temperature and with a sour taste.
I suppose it's (kind of) like using an ITC?
Opinions?
Thanks, Stu :)
If you like it then you should have put a lid on it....
Posted Mon Jun 11, 2012, 1:55pm Subject: Re: hot portafilter vs cold portafilter....
I've done a bit of experimenting with basket temp too - and got pretty much the same results as you, excessively sour shots with a cold basket.
Mine SBDU machine drops many degrees when I start to pull a shot, so I compensate by toggling the steam switch for a few seconds during the pull, which seems to improve temperature stability quite a lot.
emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,692 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Mon Jun 11, 2012, 2:00pm Subject: Re: hot portafilter vs cold portafilter....
Your experiences are right on the money....extraction not hot enough = sour shots. Now that you've learned this first hand, you might want to give up the cold pf testing.
stumeatsix Senior Member Joined: 10 Jun 2012 Posts: 2 Location: UK Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: La Spaziale s5 Grinder: La Spaziale 12 On Demand Drip: Chemex ;) Roaster: That would be telling....
Posted Mon Jun 11, 2012, 2:06pm Subject: Re: hot portafilter vs cold portafilter....
Thanks for your replies guys! Just wanted to see what everyone elses results were too.
I'm only trying this just as an experiment, I'm not actually drinking the shots, I just find myself wanting to challenge myself and experiment with different brewing temperatures, hot and cold baskets, etc.
However if you had a cold basket and increased your brewing water temperature, do you think one would cancel the other out?
Surely the water being hotter would affect the basket temperature, however it would completely ruin your espresso. Far too hot water = disasterous extraction.
Just some things to think about :)
If you like it then you should have put a lid on it....
yakster Senior Member Joined: 25 Feb 2009 Posts: 1,006 Location: San Jose, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Factory / La Peppina... Grinder: Vario / Kyocera Vac Pot: Yama 8 + Pyrex Lox-in Rod Drip: Brazen / Kalita / Chemex /... Roaster: Behmor
Posted Mon Jun 11, 2012, 5:17pm Subject: Re: hot portafilter vs cold portafilter....
Using a cold portafilter is actually a common trick with La Pavoni lever espresso machines to prevent the group from overheating. It allows you to keep pulling shots, but this is best done with a temperature strip on the group or other way to tell if you've got the temperature right.
Probably not quite so cleanly. I'm no thermodynamics expert but I wouldn't expect temperatures throughout the puck to equalize fast enough. The water at the edges of the portafilter might be closer to proper temperature but it would probably be too hot in the middle. Sour and bitter! Since you're in the experimenting mood try and see for yourself.
greattemper Senior Member Joined: 25 Mar 2012 Posts: 19 Location: Tel-Aviv Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Andreja Premium by quickmill Grinder: Lelit Roaster: Popcorn
Posted Thu Jun 14, 2012, 2:18am Subject: Re: hot portafilter vs cold portafilter....
yakster Said:
Using a cold portafilter is actually a common trick with La Pavoni lever espresso machines to prevent the group from overheating. It allows you to keep pulling shots, but this is best done with a temperature strip on the group or other way to tell if you've got the temperature right.
There's a catch here. Portafilter temperature doesn't really effect brewing temperature that much, because the espresso only comes into contact with the metal of the PF after extraction. What it does effect is shot temperature, i.e. temperature in the cup. But what happens when the ground coffee comes into contact with a filter basket that's been pre-heated together with the PF? Is there a difference between a cold and a hot basket as far as taste is concerned?
yakster Said:
Using a cold portafilter is actually a common trick with La Pavoni lever espresso machines to prevent the group from overheating. It allows you to keep pulling shots, but this is best done with a temperature strip on the group or other way to tell if you've got the temperature right.
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