Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: Questions and Answers
I prefer my 15$ moka pot to my 400$ espresso machine (?)
Quick Mill Andreja
Best bang for the buck in E-61 Espresso Machines.  In stock, free shipping, 2 yr warranty!
cupandbrew.com
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > Q and A > I prefer my 15$...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 2 of 3 first page | last page previous page | next page
Author Messages
JasonBrandtLewis
Senior Member
JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,278
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Mon Oct 1, 2012, 12:08pm
Subject: Re: I prefer my 15$ moka pot to my 400$ espresso machine (?)
 

emradguy Said:

Your beans may very well be the problem......

Posted October 1, 2012 link

Well, that's what it sounds like to me!  ;^)

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,870
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Preciso
Posted Mon Oct 1, 2012, 12:08pm
Subject: Re: I prefer my 15$ moka pot to my 400$ espresso machine (?)
 

130psi Said:

Will also try blindly reducing temp a bit. If something good happens with temp I will get the PID.

Posted October 1, 2012 link

How will you know what you did to the temperature if blind.  You can get an inexpensive digital Polder thermometer at BBB and remove the stainless probe and use the thermistor bead on the boiler and find a way to adjust using a guesstimated offset, or use the digital thermometer and styrofoam cup.  The Polder shown is one that has an easily removable thermistor, and $8 - 10.

I used one here and spliced in more length, but you can use it as is, with the stainless probe, or remove it and place the thermistor where you want.

http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machinemods/588424

and more on the use of the Polder

http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machines/569101

And, of course I agree with "the beans."

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,870
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Preciso
Posted Mon Oct 1, 2012, 12:26pm
Subject: Re: I prefer my 15$ moka pot to my 400$ espresso machine (?)
 

130psi Said:

OPV: I did, long ago, bring the pressure down to ~ 9 bar from the factory setting (closer to 11 bar).

Posted October 1, 2012 link

Figured that with your 130psi :)

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
dyqik
Senior Member


Joined: 7 Oct 2011
Posts: 383
Location: Cambridge, MA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Bezzera BZ07 PM
Grinder: Baratza Virtuoso Preciso...
Vac Pot: Cona D
Drip: Bona-Vita, CCD, Aeropress.
Roaster: Gene Cafe, Modded Poppers
Posted Mon Oct 1, 2012, 12:46pm
Subject: Re: I prefer my 15$ moka pot to my 400$ espresso machine (?)
 

Beans sounds like the biggest problem, followed by temperature.  Generally, avoid anything called "Espresso Roast" since that's a pretty reliable indicator of badly roasted very dark beans.  Most "Espresso Blends" from good roasters won't be nearly as dark as an "Espresso Roast".  On the temperature issue, it's not always easy to tell the difference between too cold and too hot, particularly with bad beans, which is why it's important to try throughout the temperature surfing profile - try starting the same dose and blend just after ready light on, 30s after, 1 min after and as it goes out. (and maybe some more steps in between).

Dosing much more than 18g in the Gaggia basket will give problems with the grounds hitting the shower screen - check for clearance with the nickel test at high doses - a nickel on the surface of the coffee shouldn't be pressed in by the shower screen if you fit and remove the PF.  Spritzer shots with the naked PF also suggest that the distribution and tamp isn't that reliable yet.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
130psi
Senior Member
130psi
Joined: 8 Apr 2011
Posts: 29
Location: CA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic
Grinder: Brazata Virtuoso Preciso;...
Vac Pot: AeroPress
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Mon Oct 1, 2012, 6:24pm
Subject: Re: I prefer my 15$ moka pot to my 400$ espresso machine (?)
 

dyqik Said:

On the temperature issue, it's not always easy to tell the difference between too cold and too hot, particularly with bad beans, which is why it's important to try throughout the temperature surfing profile - try starting the same dose and blend just after ready light on, 30s after, 1 min after and as it goes out. (and maybe some more steps in between).

Dosing much more than 18g in the Gaggia basket will give problems with the grounds hitting the shower screen - check for clearance with the nickel test at high doses - a nickel on the surface of the coffee shouldn't be pressed in by the shower screen if you fit and remove the PF.  Spritzer shots with the naked PF also suggest that the distribution and tamp isn't that reliable yet.

Posted October 1, 2012 link

Thanks for the Temperature time range. I wondered why I couldn't fit 21g into my double basket. I used a triple basket, which 21g almost filled. The greater mass seems to be helping. The triple basket makes it difficult for me to use the naked portafilter (squirting). At any rate, I now have excellent beans, will pick a mass and hold everything constant except time after the light.

 
-Brett

Making espresso is not rocket science. Rockets fail less often.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
130psi
Senior Member
130psi
Joined: 8 Apr 2011
Posts: 29
Location: CA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic
Grinder: Brazata Virtuoso Preciso;...
Vac Pot: AeroPress
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Mon Oct 1, 2012, 6:36pm
Subject: Re: I prefer my 15$ moka pot to my 400$ espresso machine (?)
 

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

OK, so -- at least from Peet's -- you have no idea when it was roasted.

What is the roasting date on the bag (if any), and how are you storing your beans?

Posted October 1, 2012 link

Hayes Valley: roasted 9/28. It is on the list of Geek-approved brands and smells great (not burned). Stored in ceramic carafe w/ silicon seal.

Some of Peets staff understand the importance of time and will tell you which days they get newly roasted beans. Generally, you can get them 2-4 days old if you time it.

 
-Brett

Making espresso is not rocket science. Rockets fail less often.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
JasonBrandtLewis
Senior Member
JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,278
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Mon Oct 1, 2012, 8:17pm
Subject: Re: I prefer my 15$ moka pot to my 400$ espresso machine (?)
 

130psi Said:

Hayes Valley: roasted 9/28. It is on the list of Geek-approved brands and smells great (not burned). Stored in ceramic carafe w/ silicon seal.

Posted October 1, 2012 link

Stored over how long a period of time . . .

130psi Said:

Some of Peets staff understand the importance of time and will tell you which days they get newly roasted beans. Generally, you can get them 2-4 days old if you time it.

Posted October 1, 2012 link

Yes, but from open bins . . .  

That "geek-approved" list is one I compiled as a guide.  Personally, I'm not a fan of Blue Bottle, but many are . . .

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
dyqik
Senior Member


Joined: 7 Oct 2011
Posts: 383
Location: Cambridge, MA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Bezzera BZ07 PM
Grinder: Baratza Virtuoso Preciso...
Vac Pot: Cona D
Drip: Bona-Vita, CCD, Aeropress.
Roaster: Gene Cafe, Modded Poppers
Posted Tue Oct 2, 2012, 8:41am
Subject: Re: I prefer my 15$ moka pot to my 400$ espresso machine (?)
 

130psi Said:

Thanks for the Temperature time range. I wondered why I couldn't fit 21g into my double basket. I used a triple basket, which 21g almost filled. The greater mass seems to be helping. The triple basket makes it difficult for me to use the naked portafilter (squirting). At any rate, I now have excellent beans, will pick a mass and hold everything constant except time after the light.

Posted October 1, 2012 link

The squirting is the sign that distribution in the basket before tamping isn't good enough, or that the grind isn't uniform enough.  You need to work on that aspect until you don't get squirting, and use those shots as a guide to the extraction time and grind fineness rather than any that squirt.  The point of the naked PF is to allow you to see shots that squirt so you can try and improve the distribution.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
IMAWriter
Senior Member
IMAWriter
Joined: 4 Jul 2002
Posts: 5,683
Location: Brentwood, TN
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Strega
Grinder: Forte, Preciso/Esatto, KyM...
Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup
Drip: Brazen, Kalita, Chemex,...
Roaster: Behmor 1600, CO/UFO combo
Posted Tue Oct 2, 2012, 9:03am
Subject: Re: I prefer my 15$ moka pot to my 400$ espresso machine (?)
 

dyqik Said:

The squirting is the sign that distribution in the basket before tamping isn't good enough, or that the grind isn't uniform enough.  You need to work on that aspect until you don't get squirting, and use those shots as a guide to the extraction time and grind fineness rather than any that squirt.  The point of the naked PF is to allow you to see shots that squirt so you can try and improve the distribution.

Posted October 2, 2012 link

+1 on this.
If you (the OP) are getting squirts with your naked PF, that would be a MAJOR reason your shots lack quality.
It indicates a flaw in your technique, or a problem with your grinder, or both.

I'll go (with apologies) with the technical problem.
First thing, SIMPLIFY.
Grind in to the basket so there is a bit of overflow. Tap down lightly once.
Try to simply distribute the coffee evenly, and for nor, if you have something with a perfectly straight edge, scrape lightly across the coffee bed/basket to level the coffee.
Make sure your tamper is level, and lightly press down. Lift the tamper and clear any stray grind from the top rim and protrusions of your tamper.
Then tamp level once more, this time with 20-30lbs of pressure. You should have at most 2-3 mm clearance beneath the rim of your basket.
Now do your thing.

For grins, Google the Stockfleth's maneuver.

 
Rob J (LMWDP #187)
My Music Production web site:
www.robertjason.com
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 2,736
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, 2 Macap M4s, OE...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Tue Oct 2, 2012, 9:20am
Subject: Re: I prefer my 15$ moka pot to my 400$ espresso machine (?)
 

If you're deadset on using Peet's coffee, they always ship within a couple of days from roasting on their home delivery orders.  Otherwise, as has been said, it's hit or miss in their stores.  however, as I said before, every coffee I've tried off the HB "list of our favorites" has been far superior to anything I've ever gotten from Peet's - for espresso.

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
showing page 2 of 3 first page | last page previous page | next page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > Q and A > I prefer my 15$...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Learn @seattlecoffeegear
Learn all about coffee, watch videos, read how-to articles.
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.393167972565)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+