CMIN Senior Member Joined: 14 Jun 2012 Posts: 564 Location: South FL Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Crossland CC1 Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Mon Oct 15, 2012, 6:47pm Subject: Timing of extraction, from time pump is turned on, or timed from 1st drip???
Be cool to have a thread about this as it was brought up in another post and reminded me. So how do you time your shots/what do you prefer? You see people who time from the second the pump is turned on, and others who time from 1st drip. The latter is what I prefer, for some reason when I time from when pump is turned on (tried with and without preinfusion) shots just pour too fast for my liking in 25 seconds and taste sorta under extracted. Whereas all the flavors for me come out when timed from 1st drip which obviously is a finer grind (ending up with a 25-30 second extraction after 1st drip). Guess it's a little trickier when using preinfusion as well, i.e. I have my machine set at 2 second preinfuse and 3-4 seconds dwell, so 1st drip usually doesn't start untill around 8-10 seconds and when I stop the pull the machine timer is usually in the 35-40 second area.
NobbyR Senior Member Joined: 10 Jul 2011 Posts: 1,661 Location: Germany Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo,... Vac Pot: N/A Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe Roaster: N/A
Posted Mon Oct 15, 2012, 10:46pm Subject: Re: Timing of extraction, from time pump is turned on, or timed from 1st drip???
When to start timing is a matter of debate. IMHO extraction time starts when you turn on the pump, because that's when the puck of ground coffee first gets into contact with hot water, so that extraction begins. The flow should then start about 5 to 7 seconds later and is stopped at around 25 seconds. At least that's how 2008 champion barista Thomas Liebe, member of the Swiss section of the SCAE, explained in a TV interview, too. YMMV
PS: Unfortunately the video is available only in (Swiss) German.
*** "This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee)
Posted Wed Oct 17, 2012, 8:54am Subject: Re: Timing of extraction, from time pump is turned on, or timed from 1st drip???
Not to be rude, but who cares? Just: - Develop a consistent and repeatable routine - Watch the espresso stream - Stop when or just before the flow lacks viscosity and turns watery - Taste the espresso - Adjust accordingly as required to match your personal taste. - Use the clock to make sure you aren't late for work ;-)
JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,100 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:53am Subject: Re: Timing of extraction, from time pump is turned on, or timed from 1st drip???
frcn Said:
Not to be rude, but who cares? Just: - Develop a consistent and repeatable routine - Watch the espresso stream - Stop when or just before the flow lacks viscosity and turns watery - Taste the espresso - Adjust accordingly as required to match your personal taste. - Use the clock to make sure you aren't late for work ;-)
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,762 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Wed Oct 17, 2012, 2:12pm Subject: Re: Timing of extraction, from time pump is turned on, or timed from 1st drip???
frcn Said:
Not to be rude, but who cares? Just: - Develop a consistent and repeatable routine - Watch the espresso stream - Stop when or just before the flow lacks viscosity and turns watery - Taste the espresso - Adjust accordingly as required to match your personal taste. - Use the clock to make sure you aren't late for work ;-)
CMIN Senior Member Joined: 14 Jun 2012 Posts: 564 Location: South FL Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Crossland CC1 Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Wed Oct 17, 2012, 2:33pm Subject: Re: Timing of extraction, from time pump is turned on, or timed from 1st drip???
haha no I know, just thought it'd be a cool discussion. Every shot I've had when timing it from start of pump has always tasted a bit watery/underextracted in the 25-30 second range, even a friend did that and thought it was great, but it tasted just like on my machine, sorta under-extracted on his Vibiemme however he liked it and thought it was good. But another friend (BDB) and I had him try shots timed from 1st drip and he was surprised at the difference especially flavor wise, more rich, chocolately etc... so since then he's adjusted his grind to time 25-30 second shots from drip. Just thought it'd be interesting to see what people on here preferred.
Looks like those links on HB are the same, like split 50/50 lol
jwoodyu Senior Member Joined: 31 Dec 2010 Posts: 705 Location: Michigan Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Allex Duetto II Grinder: Mazzer Major Roaster: Poppery
Posted Wed Oct 17, 2012, 2:38pm Subject: Re: Timing of extraction, from time pump is turned on, or timed from 1st drip???
I am a drip, no wait ;0)
You know those people that want to tell you how to raise your kids but have none of their own? That is how i feel when someone with a kitchen appliance tells me how the merits or dis-merits of my machine or how to use it.
D4F Senior Member Joined: 15 Mar 2012 Posts: 1,223 Location: USA Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID Grinder: Preciso
Posted Wed Oct 17, 2012, 2:59pm Subject: Re: Timing of extraction, from time pump is turned on, or timed from 1st drip???
Interesting note on the Redbird site, that both Redbird Espresso and Blue Jaguar are suggested 25 - 30 second shot from the first drip. Of course YMMV, especially on other coffees.
germantownrob Senior Member Joined: 2 Dec 2007 Posts: 2,040 Location: Philadelphia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,... Drip: Brazen Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Wed Oct 17, 2012, 4:27pm Subject: Re: Timing of extraction, from time pump is turned on, or timed from 1st drip???
CMIN Said:
haha no I know, just thought it'd be a cool discussion. Every shot I've had when timing it from start of pump has always tasted a bit watery/underextracted in the 25-30 second range, even a friend did that and thought it was great, but it tasted just like on my machine, sorta under-extracted on his Vibiemme however he liked it and thought it was good. But another friend (BDB) and I had him try shots timed from 1st drip and he was surprised at the difference especially flavor wise, more rich, chocolately etc... so since then he's adjusted his grind to time 25-30 second shots from drip. Just thought it'd be interesting to see what people on here preferred.
Looks like those links on HB are the same, like split 50/50 lol
I like my shots to be around 35 sec from the start of the pump or 25 sec from the first drip or 30 sec from 5sec after the pump starts. Now if you change the grind, dose, volume, time in any combination you can change the flavor of the shot.
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