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Extraction looks great, glupy red-brown, but goes pale and watery after 8-10 sec
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Discussions > Espresso > Q and A > Extraction looks...  
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Coffeenoobie
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Posted Fri Dec 14, 2012, 8:23pm
Subject: Re: Extraction looks great, glupy red-brown,
 

My shot timer is digital and does the count down and cost a dollar at the dollar store.

 
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emradguy
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Posted Fri Dec 14, 2012, 8:55pm
Subject: Re: Extraction looks great, glupy red-brown,
 

there you go, she just saved you $9!

 
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kingoslo
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Posted Sat Dec 15, 2012, 8:34am
Subject: Re: Extraction looks great, glupy red-brown
 

Hello again there,

Ron, I was really happy that you think my thread is alright.  It took some time to write a reply because I didn't know what to say.

I brewed only one cup of coffee today, but I stopped because I have a question.

I have no $1 digital watch, so I used my wrist watch analog timer: $3,000. Anyway, these are the times I recorded:

Time from when I press the "Brew"-button to pressure starts to rise in the pipes: 3 sec. This will never change.
Time from pressure starts rising to brew starts running from the portafilter: 6 sec. This will vary with grind and dose.
Time from coffee starts running until I stop brewing because the brew is beginning to run watery: 19 sec. This will vary with grind and dose.

My question: Now, I am sure I could grind finer and dose more, that way I would get longer extraction times (I think). However, the time from pressure starts rising until it starts running from the portafilter would also increase. As you can see, right now I got 9 sec (3+6 sec) from I press the button until coffee comes out. Surely, pre-brew times of 15-20 sec will is a problem? I "guess" that I should not grind finer and dose more because I will have to wait for a longer time before brew comes running out? Or what do you think? Does the pre-brew times matter?

What are your views?

Thank you for your time.

Kind regards,
Marius
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emradguy
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Posted Sat Dec 15, 2012, 6:08pm
Subject: Re: Extraction looks great, glupy red-brown
 

well, first off...I was lmao at the $1 / $3000 comment.  I too sometimes use my expensive chronograph, but more often the kitchen timer (since I have it preset to count down from 30 seconds).

an argument can be made for including in your brew time the 6 seconds of pressure building you report, since in reality, the extraction begins as soon as water hits the puck.  I haven't read any real authority on when to start timing, in part because when I found out there were different thoughts on that, I was hearing there is really no consensus.  I've always started my timer as soon as I see the first trace of extraction from my basket (of course, this is easier since I do have a bottomless handle).

Whatever you choose to do, remember (I know I've said this before, but it's easy to lose sight of it), what's in the cup when you drink it is the most important thing of all.  So...

if you're still trying to improve that, try grinding slightly finer OR updosing, but not both, and see how that does for you.  btw, have you seen the post from HB that jwoodyu linked to several days ago?  There was one from Jim Shulman explaining how to adjust dose and grind to manipulate the flavor profile in the cup.  Really worth reading, and likely to help you tremendously.  Having just seen it myself, I'm working on getting comfortable with those manipulations myself.

 
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Frost
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Posted Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:40am
Subject: Re: Extraction looks great, glupy red-brown
 

kingoslo Said:

..................
Time from when I press the "Brew"-button to pressure starts to rise in the pipes: 3 sec. This will never change.
Time from pressure starts rising to brew starts running from the portafilter: 6 sec. This will vary with grind and dose.
Time from coffee starts running until I stop brewing because the brew is beginning to run watery: 19 sec. This will vary with grind and dose........................

Posted December 15, 2012 link

For your extraction times; as Ron said, extraction begins (and you can time accordingly) from the moment the coffee meets the water.

....so now you are working with extraction times of 25-28 seconds.  This is on target for a normale shot. Congratulations, looks like you solved your problem.
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Coffeenoobie
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Coffeenoobie
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Posted Sun Dec 16, 2012, 3:08pm
Subject: Re: Extraction looks great, glupy red-brown,
 

My $1 timer lives on top of my machine and counts down from 27 seconds and I start it when I start the pump.  I stop by watching the cone get thin and watery rather than color.  I feel it is easier to spot that change than go by color.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

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frank828
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Posted Mon Dec 17, 2012, 6:20am
Subject: Re: Extraction looks great, glupy red-brown,
 

I also start my timer as soon as I start the pump.   This is also the case with two high end commercial machines' built-in automatic timers that I've used( LM strada and NS WBC Aurellia).
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