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Extraction looks great, glupy red-brown, but goes pale and watery after 8-10 sec
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Discussions > Espresso > Q and A > Extraction looks...  
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emradguy
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emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,305
Location: Houston
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Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
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Posted Tue Dec 11, 2012, 7:00am
Subject: Re: Extraction looks great, glupy red-brown,
 

NSEW is NOT a tamp technique.  It's a distribution technique. Using your finger or a "blade" of some sort, you sweep across the top of the grounds in the four different directions to level the distribution of grounds in the basket, before you tamp.  You do not try to pack the coffee in the basket with this, but rather push the mound parallel to the top plane of the basket rim, so that any low spots fill in and all points in the basket have an equal amount of grounds from surface to base.  Typically, one does NSEW, or WDT, or Stockfleth's move to distribute the grounds evenly in the basket, and then you do a single tamp (if your tamper fits your basket).  I can't watch your video, but already you've recruited a couple of the most experienced experts I know of.  Your tamp should not include a twist at the end, and you shouldn't tap your basket with the tamper (like people used to do).

Have you read "Easy guide to better espresso at home"?  It's a fantastic tool for improving you technique and, in fact, the best I've seen.  You can find it on www.espressomyespresso.com about half way down the right hand column under "how to".  The author is a long time CG member and frequent poster here (frcn), but hasn't yet chimed in on your thread.

No matter what, always remember that the most important thing is the taste in the cup!

 
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Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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D4F
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Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,038
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Tue Dec 11, 2012, 9:51am
Subject: Re: Extraction looks great, glupy red-brown,
 

Coffeenoobie Said:

I wish I could hit my puck once but if I don't do the NSEW I get channeling.  And I never, ever even without the 4 side tamping get the stack of grinds on the walls that you get.

Posted December 9, 2012 link

I took NSEW in the context to be a description of Nutation, more rotatory than just NSEW, but in the context of tamping...

Click Here (www.home-barista.com)

I guess Helen can describe what she meant :)

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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emradguy
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emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,305
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4, Pharos,...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Tue Dec 11, 2012, 11:20am
Subject: Re: Extraction looks great, glupy red-brown,
 

hmmn...never heard anybody else use it that way...maybe I should read more carefully to make sure I understand exactly what was typed.

I wouldn't expect nutation to help this OP, given his puck analysis

 
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kingoslo
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Joined: 24 Dec 2011
Posts: 33
Location: OSLO
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Tue Dec 11, 2012, 2:07pm
Subject: Re: Extraction looks great, glupy red-brown
 

Nutation certainly helped me. I will buy some more fresh coffee tomorrow. I feel the stuff I currently got isnt useful for testing further. Its too old.

I also ordered a naked portafilter. I dont expect it before xmas. It would be good to make some more videos using the new filter and all the techniques mentioned here. I will continue brew coffee with the new beans.

Thank you for your help.

Kind regards,
Marius
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frank828
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Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Posts: 581
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: Professional

Posted Tue Dec 11, 2012, 2:15pm
Subject: Re: Extraction looks great, glupy red-brown
 

kingoslo Said:

I feel the stuff I currently got isnt useful for testing further. Its too old.

Posted December 11, 2012 link

you've been using old beans this whole time???

:|
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frank828
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Joined: 23 Feb 2011
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Location: Los Angeles
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Posted Tue Dec 11, 2012, 2:16pm
Subject: Re: Extraction looks great, glupy red-brown,
 

kingoslo Said:

I have been grinding lots of different beans over the last few days. Some are a week old, the oldest ones were about 2 weeks old.

Posted December 10, 2012 link

week or two old from date of roast?  or since you acquired them?
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kingoslo
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Joined: 24 Dec 2011
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Location: OSLO
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Tue Dec 11, 2012, 2:23pm
Subject: Re: Extraction looks great, glupy red-brown
 

Hehe! :) No, I have been using decent beans, but I've run out, so I only got some old ones in the freezer. No good.M
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emradguy
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emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,305
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4, Pharos,...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Wed Dec 12, 2012, 10:01am
Subject: Re: Extraction looks great, glupy red-brown,
 

To correct myself, I have thought about it more, and I actually can recall some people using NSEW to describe tamping technique.  However, I have heard it used much more frequently for distribution technique.  I admit, I pretty much dismiss it as a valid tamp technique because...in my mind...if you need to move your tamper around the basket, then it is too small and should be replaced with one that fits better.

Also, when I said I wouldn't expect nutation to help the OP, I was referring to this puck analysis...

kingoslo Said:

When I dissect the puck, I found that the outside of the puck is darker than the inside. It looks moist around the edges and top. The center looks dry.

Posted December 9, 2012 link

This seems like a problem that would actually be caused by (over)nutation.  However, maybe it was a description of pucks before the nutation was used...only the OP really knows.

Sorry if my posts caused any confusion.

 
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kingoslo
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Joined: 24 Dec 2011
Posts: 33
Location: OSLO
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Wed Dec 12, 2012, 10:13am
Subject: Re: Extraction looks great, glupy red-brown,
 

emradguy Said:

Sorry if my posts caused any confusion.

Posted December 12, 2012 link

Dont worry man :)

I bought some new beans today. I am sorry, I feel like I am stumbling in the dark because I dont have a bottomless portafilter. I think it is best not to ask for your time before I can present you with some new material. When the new portafilter arrives. I will post some more video. I hope you will be around to help me at that point.

Thank you for your time.

Kind regards,
Marius
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emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,305
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4, Pharos,...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Wed Dec 12, 2012, 10:53am
Subject: Re: Extraction looks great, glupy red-brown,
 

Thanks for the kind words and consideration.  

Sure a bottomless pf handle makes diagnosis a lot easier, but it should be a requirement to improve your shots, so I would suggest that rather than suffer through it alone, you continue to post here until you get it right...even if that means you struggle a little more because you haven't been able to get a bottomless handle.  We're all here because we LOVE coffee and LLOVE talking about it...and believe me, I've been doing this 10 years and still learn new stuff all the time through these discussions.

 
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