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Espresso Extraction - HELP!
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RedSnapper
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Jul 2012
Posts: 14
Location: England
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: C.M.A SME./2-LS
Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly AUT
Posted Thu Jan 3, 2013, 12:51pm
Subject: Espresso Extraction - HELP!
 

I'm new to this so please be gentle........

I need some help with the basics. I'm looking at 'dialing in' my machine. I currently use traditional variables of 14g dose with extraction of roughly 21 seconds (currently using Segafredo Buono beans but looking to change once I bottom this out). I weighed the Brew Weight and it was 56g (we use an automatic machine).

So.....I've been doing a bit of reading about this and some places say that the desired Brew Weight is 2oz which equates to 56.7g. Which I've got!

However, I did some training in London and the guy spoke about Brew Ratio. They were using 18g dose and a Brew Ratio of 1.55 which gives a Brew Weight of 27.9g which is 1oz or half of what the other theory is! With the extraction I've got now it means a Brew Ratio of 4 which is massively different.

So, which one is the right method so I can move on to the next stage?

Thanks in advance,

James
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frank828
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Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Posts: 581
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: Professional

Posted Thu Jan 3, 2013, 1:10pm
Subject: Re: Espresso Extraction - HELP!
 

how does it taste?  

if i were to guess from your numbers, probably sour, thin, watery?  

i'd consider setting your grind much finer and aim for a lower brew weight.  i personally prefer a tighter shot.  with 14grams in i'd aim for closer to 21 grams out(ideally in about 25-30 seconds).  taste and then adjust if needed.
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RedSnapper
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Jul 2012
Posts: 14
Location: England
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: C.M.A SME./2-LS
Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly AUT
Posted Thu Jan 3, 2013, 1:30pm
Subject: Re: Espresso Extraction - HELP!
 

Thanks frank828.

It's pretty harsh which is why I'm looking at changing things. The flow starts a nice caramel colour but then gets watery as you suggest.

So, ignore the standard 2oz brew weight and use the brew ratio theory instead?
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frank828
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Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Posts: 581
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: Professional

Posted Thu Jan 3, 2013, 1:40pm
Subject: Re: Espresso Extraction - HELP!
 

it sounds like you have a decent scale.  ignore the ounces and go with the grams.  i typically see the first drop of espresso at about 6-8 seconds(after starting the pump) and finish up at 25-30ish seconds.   these are "by the book" numbers and of course you can adjust depending on your taste preference.  This range typically gives me a tasty beverage.
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frank828
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Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Posts: 581
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: Professional

Posted Thu Jan 3, 2013, 1:43pm
Subject: Re: Espresso Extraction - HELP!
 

all of this advice is given with the assumption that you are using freshly roasted beans hopefully within 2 weeks of roasting.
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RedSnapper
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Jul 2012
Posts: 14
Location: England
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: C.M.A SME./2-LS
Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly AUT
Posted Thu Jan 3, 2013, 2:28pm
Subject: Re: Espresso Extraction - HELP!
 

Thanks Frank.

I'm seeing the first drop of espresso after about 1 second! The machine doesn't pre-infuse so I'm guessing this means either channeling or too low dose?
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frank828
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Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Posts: 581
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: Professional

Posted Thu Jan 3, 2013, 2:52pm
Subject: Re: Espresso Extraction - HELP!
 

first thing i'd change is the grind.  grind finer.  finer the grind, slower the extraction.   one thing at a time.  later if u feel u want more strength in your espresso, you can updose and adjust the grind coarser to get your flow rate consistent.

if youre getting spurting/bubbling and not a consistent flow, it's likely bad distribution in the filter basket causing channeling.  if youre using a double spout portafilter, you want like a steady mouse tail looking flow.
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thedotben
Senior Member
thedotben
Joined: 8 Mar 2012
Posts: 48
Location: Holland
Expertise: Pro Barista

Posted Thu Jan 3, 2013, 6:30pm
Subject: Re: Espresso Extraction - HELP!
 

Every espresso on every machine with every grinder runs differently. Setting up brew parameters and weighing it out is a good personal exercise in order to manipulate your own personal results so that you can find a scientific value to what you think tastes good.

But it just doesn't work so well when trying to steal other people's recipes. All of their variables are different from yours.

So, begin adjusting your own, and take note of the adjustments you make and how it affects your end cup. What do different grind settings or updosing do for YOU on YOUR machine with YOUR beans? Don't worry about what other people are doing.

There is no universally correct answer. There is only what works best for the individual.
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fwtechwiz
Senior Member


Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 530
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Evolution
Grinder: Hario Skerton
Posted Sat Jan 5, 2013, 5:14am
Subject: Re: Espresso Extraction - HELP!
 

56 g is a LOT to eek out of just a 14 g. dose.  I second the opinion to grind finer, and when you're dialed in to about 35-40 g. you'll probably want to updose to 16 or 17 g..  that depends a lot on taste and freshness of the coffee.
As for the 1.55 brew ratio, that sounds to me like a ristretto pull..which in it's own right can give a tasty shot.
I usually go for 17 gram dose, yielding 56 grams in 20 to 25 seconds, using fresh Redbird Espresso blend.
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Coffeenoobie
Senior Member
Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,048
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Sat Jan 5, 2013, 9:58am
Subject: Re: Espresso Extraction - HELP!
 

I weighed my normal shot this morning, I normally skip it now that I have my routine down. Time 25 seconds from pump on, 19 g beans yields 37.7 g shot of redbird blue jag.  It looks and tastes pretty much like what I pull every morning.  I am terrible at math but it is pretty close to 50% ratio.

 
Coffeenoobie

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