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phil2415
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Posted Wed Jul 14, 2004, 4:52am
Subject: What's a ristretto?
 

Simple question with (I presume) a simple answer - but what is a ristretto?
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flippant
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Posted Wed Jul 14, 2004, 5:12am
Subject: Re: What's a ristretto?
 

Basically an even shorter espresso shot.

The normal volume of a double espresso is 2 fl oz or 6 centilitre. A ristretto will be 1-1.5 fl oz (3-4.5 cl). To achieve this, grinding your coffee finer and leaving both tamp and shot time intact is considered the proper method. Just cutting a normal espresso shot short (e.g earlier than the rule-of-thumb 25 seconds) will not make it a ristretto.

This produces a shot with a fuller body and more intense flavour than a normal espresso in my experience.
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bolojm
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Posted Wed Jul 14, 2004, 6:44am
Subject: Re: What's a ristretto?
 

And once you have enjoyed a good one, it is hard to go back to the "normal" pull, believe me! I cannot even order espresso out anymore (although I have yet to try Cafe Vivace in Seattle. Someday...)
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espressoDOM
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espressoDOM
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Posted Wed Jul 14, 2004, 10:34am
Subject: Re: What's a ristretto?
 

I think you have your answer on this, but quick funny story....
While I was in Hawaii I went to the Honolulu Coffee Company 3 or 4 times....
I had a double espresso pulled there and it was alright... no real crema and it was a bit thin for my taste....

so sheepishly the next time I asked ... do you know how to pull a double ristretto.... SURE the answer came and I relaxed a bit.....
it was pretty good....nice crema and everything...and all was right with my trip to Oahu....

 
DOM...evil genius ...Up to no good in espresso at all times... VIVA la parts de Espresso
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skithebird
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Posted Wed Jul 14, 2004, 11:15am
Subject: Re: What's a ristretto?
 

I also think you have your answer, but will chime in with one other esstential: FRESH BEANS!

Use of freshly roasted beans is even more essential to achieving an awesome ristretto than it is to the more normal 2 oz espresso lungo.

And for me too, ristretto has become my daily standard.  Once you have experienced a rich, dark, thick, honey-like ristretto, freshly pulled, esentially all crema, you'll be ruined for the more conventional 2 oz espresso, no matter how well made.  It'll seem too thin, too subtle, too wimpy by comparison.  Well, at least it does for me.  I no longer make lungos except by accident.  And when I do, I sip off the crema, dump the rest, tweak the grind setting, and try again!

And yes, good luck finding baristas that know how, or who will take the time to get a ristretto right for you.  Don't even bother trying this at restaurants, unless you meet a real barista there and are standing right next to his/her machine!  The time it takes for him/her to get the cup from machine to table will spoil it for you, as the crema will collapse to a normal thickness and the temperature will drop.

And, hey, getting a perfect ristretto pour seems to be a problem even at the mecca coffee bars.  I often pop into Intellingentsia here in Chicago.  Their ginders are not set up for ristrettos.  The baristas are working their butts off there making the assortment of coffee drinks requiring espresso shots that the main of their customers seem to be odering.  The value in interrupting the normal rhythm for a carefully made "special" depends on the attitude of the barista, who for the most part is young, uninterested, overworked and generally not even trained in the art of ristretto, at least on the occassions I've tried to get one there.

Cafe Vivace in Seattle only serves ristrettos as espresso.  It's noted as a warning on their menu board.  But, the one time I was there recently, the results they produced were disappointingly bitter and lacking in crema.  The good news for them is that at least they knew they were having trouble with their grind that day.  The bad news was, like Intellingentsia, their clientel is mostly ordering a wide variety of mixed coffee drinks these days, and their beans seem to have a characteristically bitter side character which wouldn't matter much and might even help in those types of orders.  Victrola, a smaller newer "roasts-their-own" coffee destination in Seattle was much more successful with ristretto for my taste.

Best solution is learning to make your own!  You won't regret it.

Bob
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Malibar
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Posted Wed Jul 14, 2004, 11:23am
Subject: Re: What's a ristretto?
 

skithebird Said:

And yes, good luck finding baristas that know how, or who will take the time to get a ristretto right for you.

Posted July 14, 2004 link

Just a note for you Texans out there: I ordered a ristretto at the Jupiter House in Denton, and it was absolutely great.  The cool thing that I failed to notice but that my girlfriend pointed out was that one of the other barista's ears perked up when she heard me order it.  [a la "Oooh! Did he just say what I think he said?!? Happy happy joy joy happy happy joy joy!"]

So, all that to say: you can find those rare baristas who know how.  If I was better at it, I'd invite you into my shop for one, on the house since you must have a discerning taste to order one... happy hunting, Geeks!

 
Hemingway had the ideal cofee shop figured out: "A clean, well-lighted place."
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skithebird
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Posted Wed Jul 14, 2004, 11:28am
Subject: Re: What's a ristretto?
 

Malibar Said:

the Jupiter House in Denton

Posted July 14, 2004 link

Where's Denton?  I get to Lubbock occassionally.
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Ellie
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Ellie
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Posted Wed Jul 14, 2004, 12:36pm
Subject: Re: What's a ristretto?
 

skithebird Said:

And, hey, getting a perfect ristretto pour seems to be a problem even at the mecca coffee bars.  I often pop into Intellingentsia here in Chicago.  Their ginders are not set up for ristrettos.  The baristas are working their butts off there making the assortment of coffee drinks requiring espresso shots that the main of their customers seem to be odering.  The value in interrupting the normal rhythm for a carefully made "special" depends on the attitude of the barista, who for the most part is young, uninterested, overworked and generally not even trained in the art of ristretto, at least on the occassions I've tried to get one there.

Posted July 14, 2004 link

Hi Bob,

Wow, I'm feeling a bit numb after reading your post.  As Director of Intelligentsia's training program, I take such commentary very seriously.  The CG community and other espresso fanatics out there are very important to us.  It is our goal to provide the ultimate coffee experience for every customer 100% of the time, and since it seems we're not achieving that with you, please allow me to help understand your experience for the benefit of you and all future customers

Let me first explain that, we, like Vivace and others, actually only pull ristretto shots.  We don't mention it on our menu boards or advertise it, but it is the case that our double shots are all prepared between 1.5 and 1.75 ounces.  It follows that our grinders (conical burr Roburs) are only set up for ristretto shots.  Second, it is true that our baristas do prepare quite a bit of the "assortment of coffee drinks requiring espresso shots" but we also prepare a lot of straight espressos and more traditional small drinks (ie macchiato, cortado, etc.) and relish the opportunity to do so.

We also have a seriously complex and involved training program for every potential barista to learn how to prepare espresso drinks, that is only passable to those who are passionate, and eventually highly skilled and knowledgeable.  Most staff do not begin drink training until 6 weeks of hire date, so that they are able to take it as seriously as we demand.  Their training is a series of a combination of one-on-one training and on-the-job-training with our Training Specialist, whose primary job function is to train and educate our retail staff (and she is awesome at it, I might add).  All of our training is based on how each variable of espresso preparation affects taste, and how to manage all variables to produce the best tasting shot of espresso systematically and 100% of the time.  We have very, very rigorous standards that have been determined by how our Black Cat espresso tastes best.  It would literally take me at least 5 posts to explain them all in detail.  We like to look at everything and educate all of our staff to develop preparation techniques based only on how to prepare the best-tasting espresso.  It takes most people between 3 and 6 months to put in the necessary training time and practice time to eventually pass our 4-part Barista Certification (and often more than one attempt at it).  

I bring these specifics up in conversation here, not to be defensive (I can't defend that your experience did not meet your expectations, just apologize and try to correct it for the benefit of you and others) but to specifically address the commentary that our staff is "uninterested...and generally not even trained in the art..."  We pride ourselves on the fact that we are not a typical "coffee shop job," and that we have a very scientific but also artisinal approach to the careful craft of espresso preparation.  We love coffee and we love delivering it to our customers.  I can't help but feel a bit shocked as we take greater pains than any company I've ever seen to ensure proper training and education for all of our staff members.  We make it clear upon hire that the "uninterested" and resistant to learning will not be happy or successful at Intelligentsia.  Our baristas take their work seriously as well and are very protective of the standards they have all worked very hard to learn.  That's the only option for us to do what we want to do, which is provide our customers with outstanding espresso and customer service.

That being said, we are always open to honest feedback as it genuinely helps us improve our preparation techniques.  Please contact me personally at any time to address your concerns.  My direct extension, toll-free, is 888-945-9786, extension 40.  And that goes for all you CG-ers out there! :)

Thanks for brining your experience to my attention.

Best,
Ellie

 
www.intelligentsiacoffee.com
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skithebird
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Posted Wed Jul 14, 2004, 1:23pm
Subject: Re: What's a ristretto?
 

Ellie Said:

Hi Bob,  Wow, I'm feeling a bit numb after reading your post.  As Director of Intelligentsia's training program, I take such commentary very seriously.  ..................... That's the only option for us to do what we want to do, which is provide our customers with outstanding espresso and customer service.  That being said, we are always open to honest feedback as it genuinely helps us improve our preparation techniques.  Please contact me personally at any time to address your concerns.  My direct extension, toll-free, is 888-945-9786, extension 40.  And that goes for all you CG-ers out there! :)        Thanks for brining your experience to my attention.   Best, Ellie

Posted July 14, 2004 link

Hello Ellie!

Wow!  I sure didn't expect to trigger such a wonderfully thoughtful reply.  I should start by saying a couple of things.  First, I'm a HUGE Evanston-based Intelligentsia fan.  I often (maybe too often) wear your handsome Black Cat long sleeved sweat shirt!  It's a common weekend choice for me!  I'm a regular Intelligentsia bean consumer (every 3-4 weeks) of 2 lbs of Black Cat and 2 lbs of Trotters.  Have been for several years, probably maybe longer.  Most of the time, parking as it is, we double park, I run in to pick up the beans, and grab a shot of Black Cat while waiting.  Usually there's a line.  On Saturdays it can get pretty busy, as you know.

The quality of your espresso shots is always great.  I have watched and learned your baristas tampting techniques.  While I don't have the luxury of a La Marzocco, I am able to do quite nicely with my new Elektra Micro Casa Semi Automatica and even with my trusty old Rancillio Audry, thanks to the Mazer Mini and Rocky grinders.  You always generate almost all crema into two shot glasses simultaneously.  I think you use the LM triple basket.  I myself use the LM double basket and take both flows into a single cup.  You seem to me to be regularly doing 1.5 oz pours into two shot glasses at the same time, in about 25 seconds.  I'm doing a 1.5 oz "ristretto" pour in about 25 seconds (sometimes 30) into a single Illy nude cup.  I find my result thick and exaggerating to give you the idea, almost chewy.  This is the same look and mouth feel I received at Victrola in Seattle during a great chat with one of the owners and the one of the baristas.  They like to do closer to 1 oz.  And, come to think of it, while I didn't enjoy the Vivace result as much flavorwise or cremawise, their attempt was to reach the same kind of thickness.

If your regular espresso is a ristretto, it is a thinner style than I make for myself.  It's certainly tasty!  I wouldn't want to leave the impression that your regular espresso is anything other than super excellent!

The CG who started this thread, one of many over the past few months on the subject of ristretto, echos a general confusion among CG's as to what a ristretto actually is supposed to be.  Perhaps, trying to find my own way, I've developed a taste for an ultra-ristretto?

And, when I said that your baristas are "uninterested" I certainly didn't mean uninterested in the art of espresso.  I'm sure they all are that.  I just saw them on my visits as harried, rushing to fill orders, and not very approachable.  That commentary shouldn't necessarily apply to ALL your baristas.  I've probably only sampled a few, and maybe on bad days.  And to be fair, their job is to fill the flow of orders.  It sure looked as if they were working very hard to keep up.  And, BTW, doing a fine job on consistency, I might add.

I will soon take you up on you kind offer to chat by phone on another matter.  I've had some generally less appealing experiences getting my Trotters beans that have had nothing to do with this thread.  Black Cat is of course always easy, but trying to get Charlie's recipe filled correctly has had a few training/service glitches we can talk about.

But please weigh in here on the question as to what constitutes a REAL ristretto.  I was very confused at first as a newbie CG observer, and then as if by osmosis and a lot of delicious R&D, I've since temporarily come to believe its very close to what I've learned to make for myself with both your Black Cat and Trotters blends.  An "essence" if you will ... the difference between a light fruity Beaujolais and a Diamond Creek Volcanic Hill Cabernet...

Thanks For Caring So Much!

Intelligentsia Rocks!

Bob
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ljguitar
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Posted Wed Jul 14, 2004, 2:19pm
Subject: Re: What's a ristretto?
 

Hi Ellie...
Thanks for the kind and detailed response. Having visited your store in the loop, I must report it was some of the best espresso we have ever tasted. It raised the bar for what we can do at home.

As for the baristi being uninterested...(just my opinion)
It's not their job to be interested in me, only my beverage. One young woman pulled the most incredible macchiato in a 'to go' cup with latte art, and we didn't even notice the artwork till we turned to leave. I returned and complimented her. The baristas on line that day were efficient, and capable.

We live in a small and friendly city, but it doesn't pay to distract the barista. They will chat with us freely around here, and pull 10 second shots while talking.

It was interesting to hear that you only pull ristretto shots.

L  a  r  r  Y

<°)))><

 
L  a  r  r  Y          J

<°)))><
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