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OPENING NEW CAFE NEED HELP
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Discussions > Espresso > Q and A > OPENING NEW CAFE...  
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skeez
Senior Member


Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 4
Location: montreal
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Tue Feb 19, 2013, 5:47pm
Subject: OPENING NEW CAFE NEED HELP
 

HI TO ALL

im looking to open my cafe sometime soon. the espresso machine that im looking to purchase is the Mirage Triplette Classic FROM kees van der westen.
but before i purchase it, can someone tell me how many grams of coffee do i need to pull  for the Mirage Triplette Classic FROM kees van der westen to make an 8oz latte and how many grams for a 12oz latte and  how many grams for an (short)espresso

the reason why im asking is because im using an other type as we speak for my restaurant and i only pull 8grams of coffee to make my short espresso and as well for my latte and it taste awesome.

now, does every machine differ from one another? that is my question to whom ever can answer
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IMAWriter
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IMAWriter
Joined: 4 Jul 2002
Posts: 5,927
Location: Brentwood, TN
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Strega
Grinder: Forte, OE Pharos,...
Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup
Drip: Brazen, Kalita, Chemex,...
Roaster: Behmor 1600+, CO/UFO combo
Posted Tue Feb 19, 2013, 10:22pm
Subject: Re: OPENING NEW CAFE NEED HELP
 

skeez Said:

HI TO ALL

im looking to open my cafe sometime soon. the espresso machine that im looking to purchase is the Mirage Triplette Classic FROM kees van der westen.
but before i purchase it, can someone tell me how many grams of coffee do i need to pull  for the Mirage Triplette Classic FROM kees van der westen to make an 8oz latte and how many grams for a 12oz latte and  how many grams for an (short)espresso

the reason why im asking is because im using an other type as we speak for my restaurant and i only pull 8grams of coffee to make my short espresso and as well for my latte and it taste awesome.

now, does every machine differ from one another? that is my question to whom ever can answer

Posted February 19, 2013 link

There is no perfect answer. His baskets are, I believe 58mm (maybe 57)
Surely 14-16 grams for a "double"...or 2 25ml singles. As you know, dosing is dependent on the coffee you are using, and what you're trying to accomplish with your pulls.
Why not contact Kees? He's a great guy. His machines are not only gorgeous, but top grade all the way.

 
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emradguy
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emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,226
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4, Pharos,...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Wed Feb 20, 2013, 8:08am
Subject: Re: OPENING NEW CAFE NEED HELP
 

sorry, I've decided not to comment after all

 
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Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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frcn
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frcn
Joined: 23 Dec 2001
Posts: 3,437
Location: Northern California
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Vibiemme Domobar Double
Grinder: Mazzer Kony, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Hario, 2 Cory pots, 1 Cory...
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Bunn A10 mod...
Roaster: computer controlled Hottop,...
Posted Wed Feb 20, 2013, 11:02am
Subject: Re: OPENING NEW CAFE NEED HELP
 

Yes, 8gm, for a single and 16 for a double using standard commercial single and double baskets is a good general starting point.

But I did not answer at first because I wondered why someone who is starting a cafe would even have to ask about dosage. The most accurate answer to your questing is, "The amount of coffee that makes the best tasting espresso." The other side of this is anyone with experience and knowledge about espresso, and particularly anyone who is opening a cafe, should know that adjusting to taste is critical and that the question should not have to be asked.

A 12 ounce latte? Ughhh.. This is why, when my friends, after tasting my coffee, ask me, "Why don't you open a coffee shop?"

"Because I would have to make people 12 ounce, caramel, five sugars, triple shot, half caf, half decaf, skinny lattes." It's hard to make a coffee drink for someone when you are laying on the floor peeing in your pants, and laughing so hard you can't talk or catch your breath as the customer is walking out the door.   ;-)

 
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emradguy
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emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
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Location: Houston
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Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
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Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Wed Feb 20, 2013, 1:01pm
Subject: Re: OPENING NEW CAFE NEED HELP
 

frcn Said:

But I did not answer at first because I wondered why someone who is starting a cafe would even have to ask about dosage. The most accurate answer to your questing is, "The amount of coffee that makes the best tasting espresso." The other side of this is anyone with experience and knowledge about espresso, and particularly anyone who is opening a cafe, should know that adjusting to taste is critical and that the question should not have to be asked.

Posted February 20, 2013 link

much nicer than I had said it before I deleted the content of my post

 
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skeez
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Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 4
Location: montreal
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Wed Feb 20, 2013, 1:18pm
Subject: Re: OPENING NEW CAFE NEED HELP
 

i think that asking questions is part of research and development.
when someone is investing money to open something, he got to make sure it all makes sense financially.
i will be a first time cafe operator so research and developement is part of the process in asking questions.
evey single ounce and questions matter to me right now.
so anymore info will be greatly appreciated

thanks for the info imawriter!!
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frcn
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frcn
Joined: 23 Dec 2001
Posts: 3,437
Location: Northern California
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Vibiemme Domobar Double
Grinder: Mazzer Kony, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Hario, 2 Cory pots, 1 Cory...
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Bunn A10 mod...
Roaster: computer controlled Hottop,...
Posted Wed Feb 20, 2013, 2:37pm
Subject: Re: OPENING NEW CAFE NEED HELP
 

You are not the first to ask questions about opening a cafe or coffee shop on these forums. If you would have told us how far along you are in the development and planning stages, how much time you have spent with your business consultant, and other such as pre-planning stages we might have known. The cost of coffee is so small compared to other costs that the question you asked, with no other included details, sounded like you were on the first day of the plan. Indeed, asking about the mass of coffee for single and double extractions using the machine you plan on buying made it sound more like you were about to make espresso for the first time.  

You would do well getting a professional business consultant who specializes in food service, and if you can, one who specializes in coffee shops/cafes. The percentage of food establishments that go under in the first three years of operation is staggering. it costs a lot less for professional assistance than to go out of business. On the other hand, where would the rest of us find good deals on used Mazzer grinders if it weren't for coffee shops closing down?   ;-)

 
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JasonBrandtLewis
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JasonBrandtLewis
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Posted Wed Feb 20, 2013, 2:44pm
Subject: Re: OPENING NEW CAFE NEED HELP
 

skeez Said:

i think that asking questions is part of research and development.
when someone is investing money to open something, he got to make sure it all makes sense financially.

Posted February 20, 2013 link

Yes, BUT . . .

skeez Said:

i will be a first time cafe operator . . .

Posted February 20, 2013 link

One would hope you would know a little something about it BEFORE deciding to get into it in the first place.

So the questions loom:  

a)  Why are you opening a new café with no experience?
b)  Who will be responsible for staff training?
c)  What sort of grinders will you be getting?  How many?  Will they be all the same, or will they be different ones?
d)  Why have you decided on a Mirage Triplette?  Don't misunderstand, Kess van der Westen makes great machines, but so do many other companies, so why this specific machine?  Why three groups?  Why not two, or four?  
e)  What coffee have you chosen, or will you be using several different roasters?

etc., etc., etc.

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
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diggi
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diggi
Joined: 28 Nov 2011
Posts: 383
Location: Halifax, NS
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Spaz vivaldi S1 V2
Grinder: B Vario, OE LIDO
Drip: Chemex, Espro Press,...
Roaster: Poppery I
Posted Wed Feb 20, 2013, 7:15pm
Subject: Re: OPENING NEW CAFE NEED HELP
 

Like others have said, It's not a bad machine and a valuable question. It's just the context. It's like saying you want to start a car service and are looking to get an aston martin, but first you want to know about the price of premium gasoline vs regular. Although a valid question, it just makes one wonder where you are in the grand scheme of things.  Maybe you are just the number cruncher and you plan to have a barista to do the simple coffee part, but want him to have the right gear; those details would be helpful.
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emradguy
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emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,226
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4, Pharos,...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Wed Feb 20, 2013, 8:07pm
Subject: Re: OPENING NEW CAFE NEED HELP
 

Hilarious! The post I deleted said something like. Your dose question is like saying I want to buy a Ferrari, does anyone know if I have to push in the clutch before trying to start the engine?

Like the others have said...asking such a basic question about dosing makes it sound like you know next to nothing about how to dial in a shot, so it's pretty difficult to get motivated to help you. what we want to see in a new cafe is expertise and excellent product, so it's hard to support the idea of someone with no knowledge getting into the espresso biz.  If you have the knowledge we'd sure like to hear it, but so far all you've done is justify your right to ask questions.

It's been suggested we help people like you in the past and for good reason, but my knee jerk response is ... Please tell me where your cafe will be and what you're going to call it, so I don't waste my time and money stopping in. However, please, please, please convince me that I'd be missing out on something great!

 
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