Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: Questions and Answers
Extraction pressure
Learn @seattlecoffeegear
Learn all about coffee, watch videos, read how-to articles.
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > Q and A > Extraction...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 2 of 3 first page | last page previous page | next page
Author Messages
calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,672
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Wed Sep 4, 2013, 8:39am
Subject: Re: Extraction pressure
 

kid_drew Said:

Ah, I get it.  

The gauges on "real" espresso machines measure in bar, you mean.  =)

Posted September 4, 2013 link

You have a "real" espresso machine, it just is not using bar for temp like most machines do ;D

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
kid_drew
Senior Member
kid_drew
Joined: 21 Jan 2009
Posts: 22
Location: Austin, TX
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville BES900XL
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Drip: French press is the closest...
Posted Wed Sep 4, 2013, 8:43am
Subject: Re: Extraction pressure
 

calblacksmith Said:

You have a "real" espresso machine, it just is not using bar for temp like most machines do ;D

Posted September 4, 2013 link

The geeks say I have a real espresso machine!  I'm finally part of the club!  =)

Backing off the grind and increasing the dose worked nicely.  It still pulled at around 10 bar and took about 39 seconds, so I probably need to back off the dose, but it tasted magical.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,672
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Wed Sep 4, 2013, 8:56am
Subject: Re: Extraction pressure
 

Im glad you are making progress.

While it is not a machine that I would choose for myself, we have quite a few here who do own them and are happy with them. It makes real espresso so, yes it is a real espresso machine!

There is a thread for BDB owners, I never go there but I would think that a lot of questions you may have that are machine specific can be answered there. Enjoy the coffee, it won't be too long now until you can't stand 99% of the coffee out there at "coffee shops" or even mom and dads house!

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
kid_drew
Senior Member
kid_drew
Joined: 21 Jan 2009
Posts: 22
Location: Austin, TX
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville BES900XL
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Drip: French press is the closest...
Posted Wed Sep 4, 2013, 9:09am
Subject: Re: Extraction pressure
 

calblacksmith Said:

Im glad you are making progress.

While it is not a machine that I would choose for myself, we have quite a few here who do own them and are happy with them. It makes real espresso so, yes it is a real espresso machine!

There is a thread for BDB owners, I never go there but I would think that a lot of questions you may have that are machine specific can be answered there. Enjoy the coffee, it won't be too long now until you can't stand 99% of the coffee out there at "coffee shops" or even mom and dads house!

Posted September 4, 2013 link

Oh, I've been way past that point for years.  Even the mid-level Breville that I had before this made better espresso than 99% of the shops out there.  =P

Thanks for the help.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 2,961
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4 x2, VDD...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Wed Sep 4, 2013, 12:01pm
Subject: Re: Extraction pressure
 

kid_drew Said:

The geeks say I have a real espresso machine!  I'm finally part of the club!  =)

Backing off the grind and increasing the dose worked nicely.  It still pulled at around 10 bar and took about 39 seconds, so I probably need to back off the dose, but it tasted magical.

Posted September 4, 2013 link

Awesome!

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
MerleApAmber
Senior Member


Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 203
Location: Atlanta
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville BES900
Grinder: Baratza Preciso + Esatto
Vac Pot: Yuma
Drip: bah-humbug
Roaster: Hot Top 2K P
Posted Wed Sep 4, 2013, 12:12pm
Subject: Re: Extraction pressure
 

Andrew,
Pleased to hear another lover of coffee has discovered they like the results they're getting with a Breville 900. Looking at this conversation I realise; after having been a member on the board nearly 10 months now... that calblacksmith not only doesn't care about 900s - it's likely true he's never seen one let alone played with it.  Ah well.... c'est la vie

Wayne? seriously?  steam plant pressure / temperature relationships on an espresso board? Since when, (other than the late 18th, early 19th century - when temperature drove pressure),was there a specific direct relationship between the two in a motor pumped shot of espresso?

Andrew, Sorry to see someone tongue-in-cheek you when you were asking a logical question when operating your equipment.
Nobby and Ron were doing you right.  And yes, it is a factor of dose and grind at a consistent tamp that comes to play to get a nominal 25 to 28 second extraction at (indicated) 9 bar pressure. Just to let you know, I too shoot for those results with a 50% 10 second preinfuse... I also find it much easier to achieve with home roasted fresh beans.  Working out the combination with factory coffee just takes a bit more time to get it just so. (but then it's easier to maintain due to the <usual> rock steady consistency of mass produced product.)

Cheers!
Chris
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
kid_drew
Senior Member
kid_drew
Joined: 21 Jan 2009
Posts: 22
Location: Austin, TX
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville BES900XL
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Drip: French press is the closest...
Posted Wed Sep 4, 2013, 12:25pm
Subject: Re: Extraction pressure
 

Thanks for the help Chris.  I'm going to try your 50% 10 second preinfuse too.

I see you own my same setup (plus the scale...jealous).  I've played around with Gaggias, Rancilios, and La Marzocco Lineas, so I have some idea of what a good machine feels like, and I'm very impressed with what Breville put together.  A lot of people seem to not give the machine a chance because of Breville's older models, and I certainly understand that.  But at the price point, I can't imagine this machine being much better.

As I said, I'm happy with the results so far.  I'm just a geek/perfectionist and always looking for small tweaks to improve my experience.  I'm going to keep tinkering with it, just because it's what I do.  =)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
MerleApAmber
Senior Member


Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 203
Location: Atlanta
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville BES900
Grinder: Baratza Preciso + Esatto
Vac Pot: Yuma
Drip: bah-humbug
Roaster: Hot Top 2K P
Posted Wed Sep 4, 2013, 12:44pm
Subject: Re: Extraction pressure
 

If you do Andrew, what I seem to see on a good pack of the puck indicated pressure can be 1 to 1.5 bar before starting the full pressure cycle for extraction (on the manual button).  I get a very early read about how close I'll actually end up at 9 bar, during, by the variance of that first rise in pressure on the pre infuse.  Why 10 seconds?  I have a very simple mind (strange to say that after all the scientific career choices I made along the way) and it's just "easier" to count to 32 to 38 seconds on the in machine timer they give ya.

Best regards, :-)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,672
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Wed Sep 4, 2013, 1:59pm
Subject: Re: Extraction pressure
 

MerleApAmber Said:

Andrew,
Pleased to hear another lover of coffee has discovered they like the results they're getting with a Breville 900. Looking at this conversation I realise; after having been a member on the board nearly 10 months now... that calblacksmith not only doesn't care about 900s - it's likely true he's never seen one let alone played with it.  Ah well.... c'est la vie

Wayne? seriously?  steam plant pressure / temperature relationships on an espresso board? Since when, (other than the late 18th, early 19th century - when temperature drove pressure),was there a specific direct relationship between the two in a motor pumped shot of espresso?

Andrew, Sorry to see someone tongue-in-cheek you when you were asking a logical question when operating your equipment.
Nobby and Ron were doing you right.  And yes, it is a factor of dose and grind at a consistent tamp that comes to play to get a nominal 25 to 28 second extraction at (indicated) 9 bar pressure. Just to let you know, I too shoot for those results with a 50% 10 second preinfuse... I also find it much easier to achieve with home roasted fresh beans.  Working out the combination with factory coffee just takes a bit more time to get it just so. (but then it's easier to maintain due to the <usual> rock steady consistency of mass produced product.)

Cheers!
Chris

Posted September 4, 2013 link

First, he took the gentle ribbing just fine, no need for anyone to get in a tizzy about it. Heck if we can't have a little fun and poke gentle fingers at each other and take it when they are in our direction, you are taking life too seriously.

MerleApAmber Said:

Wayne? seriously?  steam plant pressure / temperature relationships on an espresso board? Since when, (other than the late 18th, early 19th century - when temperature drove pressure),was there a specific direct relationship between the two in a motor pumped shot of espresso?

Posted September 4, 2013 link

Well, I can show you the gauges on just about every machine out there that is not using a PID and it will be reading in Bar. Ever wonder why  we say to set your steam boiler to about 1.0 to 1.2? Yep, we are talking Bar of pressure. I was perfectly consistent with TODAYS tech as well as the early 19th century.

Nope, have not had extensive use of the BDB, I have had a brief hands on with it in WS though, it felt as expected and with members here on their second, third and even fourth machine under warranty, I seriously doubt the lasting ability of the machine. For the same money you can buy a machine that has a proven track record of lasting for many years with no problems at all.

I was supposed to be on the BDB road show, but it seems that someone who was supposed to evaluate it, has stopped the flow of the machine from person to person. YMMV on buying one.

Other members (including yourself) have invested in them and I have watched. At first I took a wait and see attitude, then I neither recommended or advised against just gave the warning that it still had not proven its self, now, with the historical track record, I would not buy one. I have never tried to hide my opinion about it, I was hopeful at the start but the record, while not dreadful, is not all that great either.  

Many who have them have not had problems and are perfectly happy, that is fantastic and I hope you NEVER have a problem, honestly I do!

Buy what you want, drink your shots any way you like, it is your money, your mouth. Ask my opinion, you get the truth as I see it, always with a YMMV. I never was PC and I don't see any reason to start now. Not every kid on a base ball team deserves a trophy, we should not give kids credit in math for getting the wrong answer but knowing how they got there and not every piece of gear made is equal in abilities or quality.

As always, YMMV!

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
MerleApAmber
Senior Member


Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 203
Location: Atlanta
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville BES900
Grinder: Baratza Preciso + Esatto
Vac Pot: Yuma
Drip: bah-humbug
Roaster: Hot Top 2K P
Posted Wed Sep 4, 2013, 5:40pm
Subject: Re: Extraction pressure
 

Then Wayne, I'll consider myself edjumecated and realize all them folk who dial their heat cycle to produce a given pressure in the brew boiler are actually achieving a quality of temperature control they can measure in the cup. Thank you very much! Nuance - Brilliant!  When I find my equipment no longer serves my needs and desires I'll consider the idea as a new basis for discrimination of the better machine of the day.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
showing page 2 of 3 first page | last page previous page | next page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > Q and A > Extraction...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Stefano's Espresso Care
Repair - Parts - Sales
Factory Authorized &
Trained Technician
www.espressocare.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.385251998901)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+