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Discussions > Espresso > Q and A > Beans when can...  
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side
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Joined: 24 Apr 2012
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Location: Sweden
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Posted Wed Jan 22, 2014, 7:49am
Subject: Beans when can you taste a difference
 

I have heard that after grinding the beans they should be used almost straight away.
How long after can you taste a difference, same with the beans how long after they are roasted can you taste a difference.
If i store it the right way...
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boar_d_laze
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Posted Wed Jan 22, 2014, 8:43am
Subject: Re: Beans when can you taste a difference
 

The finer the grind, the quicker noticeable staling.  The better the beans, technique, grinder and brewing equipment, the more noticeable the difference.  There's no such thing as "good, stale coffee."  

2 - 3 minutes for espresso, on the outside.  6 - 7 minutes for pour over.  10 for FP.  I pulse my espresso grinder after its idled for more than 10 min to clear out retained, partial  grounds.  

In any case, immediately is best practice.  A good barista rule of thumb is "60 seconds from ringer to dinger."  That is:  One minute to grind, prep, temp, lock-in and start the pull.  

Freshness for whole beans depends on storage.  Beans can be held fresh for quite awhile if properly frozen.  In a bag with a one-way valve or tight container such as a Coffeevac, at room temperature -- almost a month.  

There's another side to the coin as well.  Many folks, especially enthusiasts, don't give their beans enough rest.  Brew usually hits its peak around day 4 or 5 post-roast, and stays at its prime for another week.  Espresso is as good as its going to get at day 8.  Heather Perry told me that she thinks of days 8 - 12 as optimal for competition.  

BDL
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steamer
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steamer
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Posted Thu Jan 23, 2014, 12:09pm
Subject: Re: Beans when can you taste a difference
 

On brewed coffee I can tell the beans are going off and taste like cardboard by the 10-12th day after roasting. Espresso is about the same, the shots are very quick.
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faaparasite
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Posted Thu Jan 23, 2014, 8:11pm
Subject: Re: Beans when can you taste a difference
 

As far as tasting the difference there's almost a noticeable difference from one day to the next, even when stored properly.  After roasting the beans will hit their flavor peak a few days after roasting and will start to decline after that.  The difference between one week out of roast and three is significant.  One month after the roast date is pretty much as far as I like to stretch it without freezing.
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CoffeeLoversMag
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Posted Fri Jan 24, 2014, 8:08am
Subject: Re: Beans when can you taste a difference
 

The length of time when the beans undergo roasting makes the taste difference. After roasting, some of the natural sugars in the bean are transformed into CO2 gas. The bean continues to degas emitting CO2 that helps to protect the delicate aroma and flavor of coffee. But after one week of roasting, the bean started to lose some of its best flavor and aroma. Thus, the better to roast just enough for your consumption and the better taste is achieved if you roast your own at home.

 
Did you know...? Dark roast coffees actually have less caffeine than lighter roasts due to the fact that the process of roasting burns off caffeine.
www.coffeeloversmag.com/theMagazine
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boar_d_laze
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Posted Fri Jan 24, 2014, 10:12am
Subject: Re: Beans when can you taste a difference
 

CoffeeLoversMag Said:

The lengths of time when the beans undergo roasting make the taste difference.

Posted January 24, 2014 link

What do you mean?  The length of time the beans are in the roaster?

After roasting, some of the natural sugars in the bean are transformed into CO2 gas. The bean continues to degas emitting CO2 that help to protect the delicate aroma and flavor of coffee.

Carbon dioxide gas protects "the delicate aroma and flavor of the coffee?"  How so?  

If you mean that as long as the beans are tightly stored, and the positive pressure generated by outgassing carbon dioxide keeps staling oxygen away from the beans... then, okay, yes.  Carbon dioxide, relatively harmless.  Oxygen, bad.  

But after one week of roasting, the bean started to lose some of its best flavor and aroma. Thus, the better to roast just enough for your consumption and the better taste is achieved if you roast your own at home.

One week?!  You are wildly outside the norm.  

Freshness depends to some extent on storage.  For instance (and obviously), you're not going to get the same freshness window in a grinder hopper that you'd get in a Coffeevac, a sealed canister or bag with a one-way valve, or something else properly designed to maximize holding time, but...

With reasonable care, beans held for brewing should be good from days 3 to 15, and beans held for espresso should be good from days 5* to 20.  

*Knowledgeable people don't consider beans sufficiently rested for espresso until at least the fifth day, post-roast.  I know a couple of "barista competition" baristas (expressly including my teacher Heather Perry), have read others' blogs, and most don't even consider espresso "competition ready" until day 8 -- already stale by your definition.

I'm not really sure if it's important or not to the discussion as its developed, but the OP's question was about ground and not whole-bean coffee.  If we want to delve into the intricacies of whole-bean use and storage, maybe we should start a separate thread.  

Coffee stales primarily from a combination of oxidation and loss of volatile oils (not "degassing").  The finer its ground, the more surface area is exposed, the more oxygen contact AND the quicker the rate of evaporative loss of those precious oils.  Very finely ground coffee -- such as espresso -- noticeably stales within two or three minutes.  Barely ground coffee -- for instance, the partially ground chunks left in your grinder when you turn it off -- can stay relatively fresh for up to a couple of hours, but not overnight (so don't forget to flush your grinder in the morning).    

BDL
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CMIN
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Posted Fri Jan 24, 2014, 10:16am
Subject: Re: Beans when can you taste a difference
 

boar_d_laze Said:

What do you mean?  The length of time the beans are in the roaster?

After roasting, some of the natural sugars in the bean are transformed into CO2 gas. The bean continues to degas emitting CO2 that help to protect the delicate aroma and flavor of coffee.Carbon dioxide gas protects "the delicate aroma and flavor of the coffee?  How so?  

If you mean that as long as the beans are tightly stored, and the positive pressure generated by outgassing carbon dioxide keeps staling oxygen away from the beans... then, okay, yes.  


One week?!  You are wildly outside the norm.  

Freshness depends to some extent on storage.  For instance (and obviously), you're not going to get the same freshness window in a grinder hopper that you'd get in a Coffeevac, a canister with a one-way valve, or something else designed to maximize holding time, but...

With reasonable care, beans held for brewing should be good from days 3 to 15, and beans held for espresso should be good from days 5* to 20.  

*Knowledgeable people don't consider beans sufficiently rested for espresso until at least the fifth day, post-roast.  I know a couple of "barista competition" baristas (expressly including my teacher Heather Perry), have read others' blogs, and most don't even consider espresso "competition ready" until day 8 -- already stale by your definition.

BDL

Posted January 24, 2014 link

Don't pay attention to him, his post hardly ever make sense and are usually gibberish, don't even know why he's still allowed to post
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boar_d_laze
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1,314
Location: Monrovia, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Cimbali M21 DT/1 Junior...
Grinder: Ceado E92; "Bunnzilla"
Vac Pot: Royal Coffee Maker
Drip: Chemex + Kone; Espro Press
Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Posted Fri Jan 24, 2014, 10:43am
Subject: Re: Beans when can you taste a difference
 

CMIN Said:

Don't pay attention to him, his post hardly ever make sense and are usually gibberish, don't even know why he's still allowed to post

Posted January 24, 2014 link

It's not the gibberish, it's the chutzpah.  His eponymous e-zine is something like $4 an issue.  

BDL
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CoffeeLoversMag
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CoffeeLoversMag
Joined: 10 Jan 2013
Posts: 218
Location: Seattle
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Tue Jan 28, 2014, 6:54am
Subject: Re: Beans when can you taste a difference
 

I beg your pardon two guys above who did not accept my opinion. Actually, I just give comparison the taste of fresh roasted beans and to the post roasted beans after one week. I just want to emphasize that after the beans are roasted, the taste differs when you use it right away than after one week. I did not mean that it is already stale after one week. And I want to correct my statement that it is not one week of roasting but one week after the beans are roasted. The taste of fresh roasted beans differs than after several days of keeping.

 
Did you know...? Dark roast coffees actually have less caffeine than lighter roasts due to the fact that the process of roasting burns off caffeine.
www.coffeeloversmag.com/theMagazine
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