sdavies Senior Member Joined: 7 May 2006 Posts: 8 Location: Sydney Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: ECM Giotto Grinder: still searching
Posted Sun Mar 23, 2008, 10:35pm Subject: Calcification on water level probe causes overflow of boiler in Giotto
Hi to all Does anyone know the solution to this? I am told it is a common problem, and has occurred twice to my Giotto classic.
The boiler keeps filling with water, seemingly failing to detect the maximum fill, and results in water overflowing out of the machine. This causes expensive repairs. I am told that the probe that detects the water level gets coated with calcification and can’t detect the water level. This happens despite only using filtered water.
This probe is meant to be one that can be simply withdrawn from the top of the boiler. If true, then a simple clean in vinegar should do the trick. However, I can’t tell which of the metal tubes entering the top of the boiler is the water detection probe (though I suspect it is the one with the electric wire attached on the far left of the attached photo).
Can anyone point out which is the correct probe? Any hints on how to do this removal and clean? There are nuts to loosen and remove as well – are there likely to be seals/gaskets to replace?
Lovey Senior Member Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 59 Location: Batemans Bay, Australia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Giotto Premium Grinder: ECM Best Roaster: 'Corretto'
Posted Mon Mar 24, 2008, 5:02pm Subject: Re: Calcification on water level probe causes overflow of boiler in Giotto
G'day Stephen, The boiler level probe is indeed the one that you've indicated. There could be another problem in relation to the probe, apart from it getting calcified, which will cause it to fail. If the water is 'too pure', like RO or distilled water, the probe won't 'detect' the water level and will cause the boiler to overflow. Once you pull the probe out, you'll soon find out one way or the other which problem you have. I believe that the probe can be just pulled out of the sleeve on top of the boiler, but be sure to mark it with a texta to make sure that it goes back in to the right level. If it won't just slide out, you'll have to loosen the nut which surrounds it. Good luck with it. Steve.
sdavies Senior Member Joined: 7 May 2006 Posts: 8 Location: Sydney Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: ECM Giotto Grinder: still searching
Posted Mon Mar 31, 2008, 3:11am Subject: Re: Calcification on water level probe causes overflow of boiler in Giotto
thanks for your help, Steve. Sorry it took me a while to reply - I have been away. Yes - I was aware that too pure water - without any minerals - does not allow the probe to detect the water level and can result in the same overflow problem. But ECM serviced my Giotto and it was calcification. In their report, they mention "Cleaned and trimmed back sheeth boiler probe flushed boiler - reset water level". I am not sure what trimming the probe can mean, or reseting the water level, so I'll check with them. I thought it would simply be a matter of cleaning the probe and repositioning it. I tried to simply pull the probe out - it protrudes by 5ml only, but it must be held in place by the nut at the base. Again, when I relocate it, I am not sure how you make sure its position resets - I thought it would simply float. Guess I will soon find out! If you have any further hints about this, feel welcome to advise. Thanks again for your help. Stephen
This seems to be a strange Internet myth that I have found does not actually happen in practice on any of the espresso machines I have tested.....I have used RO water with TDS levels below 7 ppm and on some even tried distilled water with TDS levels of 2 or 3 ppm. I don't really know where this one started, but certainly all espresso machines I have tested/reviewed during the last few years correctly detect the water fill level when using RO water. In the expobar user guide for the Pulser and Brewtus II they even recommend distilled water for the machine.
The auto-fill probe technology is common across the majority of prosumer espresso machines, so it's hard to imagine any machine working differently, or NOT working properly with RO water..certainly RO water with very low TDS definitely works fine in the following machines (with auto-fill technology):
La Spaziale S1 Vivaldi MKII (run off a bottle) La Spaziale S1 Mini Vivaldi Andreja Premium Quick Mill Vetrano (when run off a bottle) Giotto Premium (by Rocket Espresso) Dalla Corte Mini Izzo Alex MKI Izzo Alex MKII Izzo Vivi MKI Izzo Vivi MKII Fracino Heavenly Isomac Millenium Isomal Relax Automatica Expobar Office Control Expobar Office Pulser Expobar Office Leva Expobar Brewtus II
sdavies Senior Member Joined: 7 May 2006 Posts: 8 Location: Sydney Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: ECM Giotto Grinder: still searching
Posted Thu Apr 3, 2008, 4:22am Subject: Re: Calcification on water level probe causes overflow of boiler in Giotto
Davec sounds like you have done your tech homework on this. I have no idea - but I was always a bit suspicious about the advice that "too pure" water would not be recognised by the probe. I am in Sydney - I will certainly print off your comments and ask the ECM Giotto distributors. Stephen
DavecUK Senior Member Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Posts: 221 Location: UK Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto (serial... Grinder: Mazzer Mini E Roaster: Toper 1kg (sold) Gene Cafe
Posted Thu Apr 3, 2008, 4:29am Subject: Re: Calcification on water level probe causes overflow of boiler in Giotto
sdavies Said:
Davec sounds like you have done your tech homework on this. I have no idea - but I was always a bit suspicious about the advice that "too pure" water would not be recognised by the probe. I am in Sydney - I will certainly print off your comments and ask the ECM Giotto distributors. Stephen
The Giotto I tested was by Rocket Espresso....ECM stopped making the Giotto a while back and sold the rights to Rocket. That said, I don't believe the basic design has changed at all...but yes the test machine worked fine on pure RO water. However, i should point out that I have a water softener and an RO unit because RO units work better on softened water and our water is so hard, the rest of the house appreciates it. For my personal machine, I actually add about 1 part softened to 6 parts RO water, just to bring the TDS up to around 50 for taste purposes and also to ensure that any "leeching" of copper (which will be minute) by the RO water is eliminated. I do try and keep the TDS to around 30-50 though, because again, I don't want to much other crap in the machine (there's more than limescale in the water that's not RO treated).
The manufacturers may actually believe this myth on the Internet...so many people do, it seems to have become an accepted fact that is never tested :-)
P.S. I only use RO for any test machines, because i like to ensure they are totally clean inside when returned (the RO water leaves zero deposits) and will remain smell free longer with RO left in the boiler.
TroyR Senior Member Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 425 Location: St. Albert, Alberta Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: bezzera BZ02s Grinder: mazzer rio normale, solis... Vac Pot: bodum santos Drip: french press Roaster: i-roast 2
Posted Sat Apr 5, 2008, 3:09pm Subject: Re: Calcification on water level probe causes overflow of boiler in Giotto
DavecUK Said:
The manufacturers may actually believe this myth on the Internet...so many people do, it seems to have become an accepted fact that is never tested :-)
Really? It depends on the system and RO used to produce the water.
When I first started using a machine with autofill I had no problem using the RO water from my local filtered water store. Then suddenly my, reservoir level detection probe stopped working. Culprit... a fresh maintenance on the water store's RO and lower conductivity RO product water.
DavecUK Senior Member Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Posts: 221 Location: UK Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto (serial... Grinder: Mazzer Mini E Roaster: Toper 1kg (sold) Gene Cafe
Posted Sat Apr 5, 2008, 4:01pm Subject: Re: Calcification on water level probe causes overflow of boiler in Giotto
Troy,
If you check my posts, you will see the TDS of the water was measured and I had also used distilled with a TDS of 2 or 3....No domestic RO system is going to produce a TDS that low.....it still worked. My 5 stage RO system, gets my TDS down from 335 ppm to about 12ppm or around 97% rejection.
To produce water with a TDS less than 2 would be difficult....so I am puzzled by your post...but i suppose there will always be a few odd occurences.
Symbols: = New Posts since your last visit = No New Posts since last visit = Newest post
Forum Rules: No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards. No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum. No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum. Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards. Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics. Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies. Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies. Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts. Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
![sdavies: Giotto inside low res.jpg](javascript:ImagePopup("/images/38079/Giottoinsidelowres.jpg", 1600, 1200, "sdavies: Giotto inside low res.jpg");)
= No New Posts since last visit 