guitarchick Senior Member Joined: 29 Dec 2004 Posts: 1 Location: NC Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Wed Dec 29, 2004, 9:45am Subject: Re: People Against Starbucks
Just think about this: anything is better than McDonald's, Hardee's, or any other fast food place's coffee for that matter. No one's forcing you to go to Starbuck's, it's your choice. I used to work at a coffee shop & we always dreaded the people that complained. If you think you can do a better job, why aren't you behind the counter making it?
Posted Thu Jan 13, 2005, 11:07pm Subject: Re: People Against Starbucks
_intense_ Said:
i despise their treatment of coffee, the whole idea of coffee as a mass produced plastic-fantastic take-away mc'drink *ROAR* its FINE CUISINE and an ART, why do they butcher it? worst coffee i'v e ever had has been at the hands of SBUX, sure the baristas are responsible and every franchise has different ppl, but the whole shop made me sick, when i said "this espresso is terrible, its overextracted" the girl looked confused, didnt offer to try again offered no refund and proceeded to ignore me (note to self: burn down sbux)
*IMPORTANT* avoid sbux at all costs -unless u want a soy decafe half strength doubleshot mocha hazlenut crunch aenema to go >_< *rant rant and so on and so forth*
Posted Thu Jan 13, 2005, 11:16pm Subject: Re: People Against Starbucks
Just think about this: anything is better than McDonald's, Hardee's, or any other fast food place's coffee for that matter. No one's forcing you to go to Starbuck's, it's your choice. I used to work at a coffee shop & we always dreaded the people that complained.
If you think you can do a better job, why aren't you behind the counter making it?
Dewey316 Senior Member Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Posts: 1 Location: Portland, OR Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Fri Jan 14, 2005, 10:16am Subject: Re: People Against Starbucks
It is interesting that people feel so strongly one way or the other about this. Starbucks has managed to do what every corporation strives for. Their name has become synonymous with their product. I grew up in the PNW, so I think the influence of Starbucks may be a bit different than folks in other parts of the country. Starbucks did not introduce me to coffee, or espresso, or the scene. What they have done, is introduced it to the rest of the country. Getting a latte, or espresso is now available at any corner, in any city you go to. I'll admit, there are many Saturday mornings, where I don't feel like making myself a drink, and driving or walking a couple of blocks to the local Starbucks, is the easy solution. I also don't think that it has in anyway diminished espresso in anyway, as some would have you think. If anything it has made me appreciate a good espresso more than ever. Every time I sit down and have a good cup of coffee with my mother (who is the one who introduced me to espresso, and who still makes the best ;)), or when I take the time to go out of my way to sit down and one of the local independent shops that servers a good product. The Starbucks influence reminds me of how good it really is, and why it is worth my time/effort. In some ways, I think we all have Starbucks to thank, we now appreciate those good pulls, and when we are in a pinch, stranded in an airport anywhere in North America, we can at least get our fix. Like their product or not, you always know what you are getting, and for that you are never really disappointed, you know it is not going to be great when you order it, and like many others in this thread, it is FAR from worst, I have had MUCH worse, many times.
MPantani Senior Member Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 116 Location: Seattle Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Isomac Millennium Grinder: Pasquini Moka Drip: Never
Posted Fri Jan 14, 2005, 11:17am Subject: Re: People Against Starbucks
Initial thread post:
Euphoriajunkie17 Said:
If you think Starbucks is too expensive, overrated, or just plain nasty, give me your feedback. I work in a coffee shop, and I get feedback all the time about how we kick Starbucks in the face.
Hey! What are all of you doing bashing Starbucks? Over the past two hours Starbucks stock has been going down! Start saying nice things about them. Right now!
;-)
My feelings on Starbucks are already stated:
An independent café now has a great opportunity to compete on quality and taste. On another thread a café owner was asking how to compete with Starbucks. Someone replied that he should offer a free espresso drink to anyone bringing in a Starbucks cup. Whether that works economically I don't know, but there is no way someone could walk from Starbucks down the street to Zoka and not taste a difference.
I see a similarity to other markets. McDonalds will always be bigger and make more money overall than a local restaurant selling a great burger for $5.00. Toyota will always be bigger and make more money overall than BMW. There are many more Camrys sold than BMW 3-series. But some people still by 3-series, and enough that BMW is doing well financially.
Isn't the key figuring out a way to educate the customer about the quality difference? Some people, not all, will pay $40,000 for a BMW rather than $25,000 for a Camry because they have come to learn the advantages of the BMW. Competing in the coffee market has an advantage over burgers and cars: that cup at Café Intelligentsia or Vivace is the same price as the one from Starbucks! Maybe less. Shouldn't every café owner in the country be thrilled about Starbucks' standards going down? BMW can only fanaticize that Toyota would reduce the quality of Camrys but sell them at the same price as BMWs. If you are an independent cafe owner and can't compete, it is not Starbuck's fault!
I'm pleased that Starbucks does what they do even though I don't prefer their coffee. They serve their market. I'm also pleased that Hyundai and Kia make inexpensive cars, that McDonalds can charge $10 to feed a family of four, and that Target sells reasonably priced clothes.
It seems to me that Starbucks raises coffee appreciation from a Folgers level to a moderate level. Beyond that its up to the specialty coffee sellers. For those of you living in a city where great coffee is new, where Starbucks has started peppering the town with shops, I say take advantage of the opportunity. Starbucks will educate the populace. There is a large market of people who seek quality above Starbucks level and that market doesn't appear to be served very well. Serve it. Make gobs of money. Smile.
A little story- when I was still struggling with consistency, an absolute stunner walked in and I made for her (at the time) the best skinny milk cappacino that I had ever made. The boss, seeing this goes to me- ok, you have to make every coffee like she is your customer. :)
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