Posted Wed Oct 19, 2005, 1:37pm Subject: Re: October 19th Shoutout to those who bring you CoffeeGeek!
Who is "J"?
Remember all those Metallica fans -- the one's who are still bitching that they "sold-out" after Ride The Lightning or Master of Puppets? I do. They're still living in their parent's basements and still wearing white high-tops and sporting long stringy mullets.
Dude --- Starbucks is an enormous player in the coffee world. This site embodies an enormous braintrust of passionate coffee drinkers and fans. This website is a huge depository of discussions concerning every facet of the coffee industry. I want Starbucks at my table and I want them to participate in, and help support the dialogue here. They may or may not survive the experience, that's up to them to figure out --- but I for one am tickled pink that the critical mass of people and discussion has drawn Starbucks to OUR TABLE. That's Major kudos to all of us. Imagine if you will the significance of this? Pretty big accomplishment if you ask me.
I can't wait to see what happens next -- and I can't wait to continue to participate in the discussions and dialogue knowing we have attracted such interest. Get on-side and help shape those discussions.
Besides -- everyone knows that the Black Album was the best.
MarkPrince Moderator Joined: 19 Dec 2001 Posts: 4,700 Location: Vancouver Expertise: Professional
Espresso: Frankenstein'ed LM Linea Grinder: Anfim Super Caimano Vac Pot: 1922 Silex Drip: Krups Moka Brew Roaster: Hottop
Posted Wed Oct 19, 2005, 2:21pm Subject: Re: October 19th Shoutout to those who bring you CoffeeGeek!
dankbean Said:
what other purpose is there for a sponsor to pay for an ad? if they wanted our opinion about their business practices and products, couldn't have they just asked? why pay the extra $$$ ?
What is so difficult about understanding that sometimes, a sponsor pays the extra $$$ because they want this site to be well funded?
In the past, ESI has bought adspace on this site. In fact, they did it when the site was just getting off the ground. CG, especially back then, was *not* a venue for Espresso Specialists, Inc. - the target market for this site was almost 100% consumer oriented when it started. They signed on for one reason - they wanted to help get this site off the ground. They ended up running a banner for almost 9 months.
There are current sponsors besides starbies that are paying for a few more ads than they normally would have - the click throughs on banners isn't the greatest, but they do it, and in part, do it for the same reason that ESI did.
dankbean Said:
but it seems that some people's tones about THE MAN have changed rather abruptly over the last few days, and i'd like to know why
I don't think my tone has changed much. If you look through my past postings about Starbies, I've been pretty balanced, both on the good side, and the not so good side.
I've been very vocal my entire time online about how, for eg, without Starbucks, we simply wouldn't have the espresso market we enjoy (and drink) today. That's a positive. In the past, I've posted about how there were some holdouts on the traditional machines, and how these shops are still "doing it right". That's a positive as well.
And I've talked about Joe Magazine (a pet peeve of mine), about the excessive pricing of the first few Black Apron offerings (which have now become more realisitic), talked the super auto issue to death, and talked about the transition of the Barista to the PBTC.
This Starbies deal was in the works for almost two months now. But in recent podcasts, I've had some critical things to say about them. I think also in the last two months, I've probably posted a gripe here and there about them on the board (Joe Mag again, for eg).
If I was all of a sudden changing my tone, wouldn't it make sense that, the moment they contacted us about sponsorship, I'd clam up?
Now's not the time to just rant against Starbies, at least from a site-owner perspective. Right now, I have one thing to thank them a lot for (and frankly, so do many of you), and I was joyed when, visiting the starbucksstore.com site, seeing the food pairings for the first time, I wanted to share that too - because that, IMO, is not only a good thing, but a *great thing*, that if any roaster is serious about elevating the status of specialty coffee in the eyes of the foodie world, that's a way to go (the old wine comparison again).
That Starbies is doing that in itself isn't so great - what is great is that the GENERAL public will see it and perhaps start thinking about coffee in a different light. Which ends up benefiting all geniune specialty coffee companies, roasters, baristas, the works.
dankbean Said:
ps: still waiting on Jeanette's email reply about sponsorship......
espressoDOM Senior Member Joined: 1 May 2003 Posts: 2,189 Location: Bay Area Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: WEGA Lyra (vibe) Grinder: Mazzer Mini Vac Pot: (no more coffee equipment) Drip: French Press Roaster: Hot Top Roaster; Fresh Roast...
Posted Wed Oct 19, 2005, 2:23pm Subject: Re: October 19th Shoutout to those who bring you CoffeeGeek!
whew..... still alive.....
dank....we are on notice... theGEEK has spoken..... his opinion is LAW in the future that is AKU
(sorry....Samurai Jack on the brain)
again I did welcome Paradise Roasters.... I think this is a great thing for a roaster in the MN area that sources great coffee.. A young / passionate dude.....
Sorry 2.99 banner is staring me in the face as I type this and it makes me want to click it... OOO shiny GREEN banner I guess I don't understand the change in philosophy and you don't HAVE to explain it to me.... so I just continue to be confused.... maybe if I read the Jeanette article it will make more sense to me.... IS IT HIDDEN there....
DOM...evil genius ...Up to no good in espresso at all times... VIVA la parts de Espresso
iginfect Senior Member Joined: 8 Dec 2003 Posts: 257 Location: herkimer new york Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: vetrano/rancillio silvia Grinder: mazzer mini/rocky doserless Vac Pot: yama 5 cup Drip: melior french press Roaster: gene cafe
Posted Wed Oct 19, 2005, 2:30pm Subject: Re: October 19th Shoutout to those who bring you CoffeeGeek!
It's to order beans again, so instead of trying my cg nonsupporter site but great coffee I went to one of the new supporters and am very tempted to buy their beans. There is a description of the taste but no idea what is in the blend. How about a little more info?
MarkPrince Moderator Joined: 19 Dec 2001 Posts: 4,700 Location: Vancouver Expertise: Professional
Espresso: Frankenstein'ed LM Linea Grinder: Anfim Super Caimano Vac Pot: 1922 Silex Drip: Krups Moka Brew Roaster: Hottop
Posted Wed Oct 19, 2005, 2:31pm Subject: Re: October 19th Shoutout to those who bring you CoffeeGeek!
iginfect Said:
It's to order beans again, so instead of trying my cg nonsupporter site but great coffee I went to one of the new supporters and am very tempted to buy their beans. There is a description of the taste but no idea what is in the blend. How about a little more info?
i have received no such notice, and since i'm Polish, i sometimes don't pick up on the "Shut up Stupid" vibe. oops. (sarcastic filter on)
and Mark, if at any time you would like me to make my comments between just you and me, say the word and i'll email you. but i'm sure i'm not the only one wondering this, hence the public forum posting.
MarkPrince Said:
What is so difficult about understanding that sometimes, a sponsor pays the extra $$$ because they want this site to be well funded?
i'm wondering WHY they would want this site to be well-funded! if they are trying to make an effort to bring back some of the quality-first values that started their company, well then hoo-rah. but judging by the way they treat indy-shop owners that happen to be "on their turf", i would rather suspect they would push our head under the water, not throw us a life-preserver. i just got off the phone with a woman in Kentucky that was surprised to see the Starbucks construction guys working AROUND THE CLOCK to open their store three weeks before hers. and then tried to have her store banned from the facility (because they were open first), but failed (because she signed her lease first). these are not random rantings, or me just trying to poke my finger in your ribs. i am a curious PROFESSIONAL (thank you very much, i work my a$$ off to encourage progression in this industry, albeit not by posting espressoporn)
i'm not saying they are trying to fool us. i'm not saying that Mark's morals have been corrupted. but your analogy of:
doesn't really hold water, because i cannot find the same kind of condescending, disapproving, spiteful remarks toward ESI that i can find about the "Starbies" in this website. and i don't mean from just you, i mean the community.
i'm not saying you should pick your sponsors according to who the community approves. according to Jeanette, you can't afford to.
i'm certainly not saying that you should have to ask our permission to run your site how you see fit. if i wanted a better site, i would build it. i like the community of CoffeeGeek just fine. but i was under the impression that the majority of this community felt that Starbucks was below the standards that so many of us geeks hold ourselves to.
dankbean Senior Member Joined: 8 Jun 2005 Posts: 886 Location: Raleigh, NC Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: mine Roaster: self
Posted Thu Oct 20, 2005, 9:45am Subject: Re: October 19th Shoutout to those who bring you CoffeeGeek!
I have other (confidential) reasons to believe that there's more than just driving traffic to their business involved
For the record, I agree that resorting to profanity and attacks does nothing but discredit you. Therefore, I understand about the locking of the threads, deleting of posts, banning of crazy posters, etc. But remaining silent in the face of a valid questioning has the tendency to also discredit you. If you think people are getting the wrong impression, you should say something.
Posted Thu Oct 20, 2005, 10:10am Subject: Re: October 19th Shoutout to those who bring you CoffeeGeek!
Bottom line-- it's Mark's site and he can do what he likes. We're not shareholders, and have no voice in his management decisions. I, for one, am happy for him if Starbucks helps him make this venture profitable. He's nurtured the site for years out of his love and passion for coffee, and deserves it.
Personally, I'm indifferent to Starbucks' sponsorship participation because I never buy anything from them. Unless I see evidence to the contrary, I'm willing to believe their motives are above board. The membership here is such a tiny fraction of the coffee drinking public, I don't know how they'd benefit by stifling our voices.
Anyway, if you don't like the direction the site takes, you always have the option to vote with your feet!
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