MarkPrince Moderator Joined: 19 Dec 2001 Posts: 5,647 Location: Vancouver, BC Expertise: Professional
Espresso: KvdW Speedster Grinder: Versalab M3 Grinder Vac Pot: A bit too many Drip: Bonavita Roaster: Hario Glass Retro Roaster
Posted Thu Mar 19, 2009, 4:19pm Subject: Re: Discussion thread for Buy, Sell and Trade forum rules
No - if you have a light commercial grade machine that you bought for your home use, and want to sell it, it's still allowed in the BST forums. Rule 5 pertains to machines that directly come from cafes, restaurants, catering businesses that are real, failed, or never came to be.
I explained the rule further in the optional read thread:
Rule 5: No machines obtained from a coffee or restaurant or food service business are allowed to be listed here. It doesn't matter if the business is real or failed, or if you bought it at a bankruptcy auction, or are selling it for a friend.
This one has been an ongoing problem. We've heard every excuse in the book, from "it's never been used commercially!" to "I'm selling this for a near bankrupt friend!" and everything in between. But the bottom line is this - if it is in any way tied to a commercial food venture, real, failed, or never realised, it cannot be sold here. No exceptions. Use eBay or Craigslist.
I may add a clarification to that rule if people are confused about it. But to be honest, if someone wants to sell a $3,000+ machine, they should be using eBay (more exposure, fees paid because of the cost) or craigslist (in person sales, usually).
Posted Thu Mar 19, 2009, 5:12pm Subject: Re: Discussion thread for Buy, Sell and Trade forum rules
With regards to rule #5, is there a point when a machine with commercial history becomes "BST acceptable?" I recently purchased a machine from the owner of a defunct restaurant (via Craigslist). I purchased it for my own use but if upgradeitis were to set in would it's previous commercial use keep me from being allowed to post it on BST or would the fact that I've used it at home make it permissible? This is purely hypothetical as I'm still quite happy with my Bric but it has only been about 3 weeks and my upgradeitis usually doesn't kick for 8-10 weeks. I've struggled a bit with the wording of this question, I guess I'm just a little confused as to the intent of the rule. Is it a case of "once a machine has been used commercially it is forever forbidden on BST" or "seller's personal machine may be listed, regardless of use prior to the current seller?" I could see this being an issue with most of the used SJs that we see as many of them probably started out in a commercial environment.
Posted Thu Mar 19, 2009, 5:48pm Subject: Re: Discussion thread for Buy, Sell and Trade forum rules
I think the point of rule #5 is that the BST is not used to unload commercial equipment from a business. If you bought a commercial machine from a business and actually used it in your home, it is now fair game for BST. If you bought it for a song and want to try to make a quick profit, then no.
Posted Thu Mar 19, 2009, 5:59pm Subject: Re: Discussion thread for Buy, Sell and Trade forum rules
Mark, is there anyway to cut down on the chatter in the BST threads. Maybe I missed it.
The discussions I mean is when Fred comes on and suggests that it is over-priced; he bought one off _________ for $50 less 3 weeks ago, etc. Then the discussion ensues about whether or not this person is saving the potential buyer from the perils of the free market. The someone suggests that the 2nd poster is looking out for the CG community. Members then begin to side up with one or the other... Then the moderator asks for the noise to cease.
Joel_B Senior Member Joined: 9 Oct 2007 Posts: 1,826 Location: Pacific NW Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Astra Mega II Grinder: Mazzer SJ, Virtuoso Vac Pot: Yama 5 cup Drip: nope, french press Roaster: Behmor, WP, BBQ drum
Posted Thu Mar 19, 2009, 7:08pm Subject: Re: Discussion thread for Buy, Sell and Trade forum rules
Dave, I agree that I'd like to see something done about the overall "chatter" that occurs.
It's not limited to "that's way too high". I've seen the "ooh, sweet deal on that machine" or the like. I guess my objection is that there's so many comments by people who have no real interest in the sale. I've personally seen bad "advice" being given to an item/price of an item.
Even if the comments on the price is allowed, there's so much other glop that comes in; anything from "I was looking at getting one of these too" to "I have one of these, does anyone know if I can add a (insert any given modification)?" Not that these aren't good conversations, but distracting from the actual thread isn't fair to the seller/buyer/trader IMO.
I would like to see a "no comment allowed that's not directly related to the sale" clause become in effect.
Mark, I've read your new rules and I think they address some of the issues that I've seen and clearly you've seen. I just think it's a little sad that you needed to insert a letter of the law to enforce your spirit of the law intentions (or at least that's how it seems to me). From your posts, I've taken that the BST more as a benefit for the members to have a community market rather than a want ads.
Hope to see the new rules affect the BST forum positivly.
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