Water_Boy Senior Member Joined: 31 May 2005 Posts: 4 Location: Melbourne, Australia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Silvia Grinder: Rocky
Posted Mon Jun 13, 2005, 4:31am Subject: Just got my Silvia(A$599) and Rocky(A$385), where to get a good tamper in Melb.
Hi everyone, I just got silvia and Rocky over the long weekend and I'm very happy with it, anyone who is looking at getting one might want to go to Mocopan (Melbourne) to have a look, coz they are selling it at $599 at the moment. Anyway, my question is with the tamper, the tamper came with silvia is not big enough to fit the filter and it's curved!!! not good from what I read on forum and books, so where did people get their tamper for silvia?? Thanks
I don't think there's any wrong with curved base tampers, just a different philsophy on tamper.
Anyway, if you're looking for a flat tamper. Try the pullman tamper. I found the handle a little sharp for me. Apart from that, it's a bueaty. You may also want to hear read about what Luca said a few days ago(here).
And then it depends on whether you subscribe to that philosophy :)
For an even extraction, where the showerscreen is flat, the base of the portafilter is flat, wouldn't you want the tamper base and therefore the top of the puck to be flat? Otherwise aren't you going to get a degree of chanelling or at least uneven extractions?
Just my perspective.
Have fun with your new toys Water Boy! Great prices too!
Posted Mon Jun 13, 2005, 8:27pm Subject: Re: Just got my Silvia(A$599) and Rocky(A$385), where to get a good tamper
Water_Boy Said:
the tamper came with silvia is not big enough to fit the filter and it's curved!!! not good from what I read on forum and books, so where did people get their tamper for silvia??
firstly there is nothing wrong with a curved tamper. the standard filter baskets that come with the rancilio PF are (slightly) curved at the base and a curved tamper suits them (that's one argument).
if you are happy with a curved tamper then there are some (relatively) cheap stainless steel ones around $20 from most shops that sell machines/beans etc. i use one of those and got mine from coffee company in balaclava but they're available in lots of places. i find it just the right size and weight for my liking. alternativley if you have to have a flat one (that's ok too) then certianly try the pullman variety but they will be more expensive. i think you may have to order that sort of thing directly, as i'm not sure if there are shops in melbourne that sell esoteric items like that.
secondly, unless they put the wrong sized tamper in your package, then it is unlikely that it 'not big enough'. don't get me wrong the plastic tamper that comes with the silvia is pretty useless but it is meant to be slightly smaller (around 1mm) than the basket otherwise it might get jammed by loose coffee grounds. i would suggest that your replacement tamper be slightly smaller than 58mm in order to be used in a 58mm basket.
finally, which type of pf did mocopan supply with your silvia. is it the 'domestic' one which has a single piece (though detachable) spout and a handle that has ridges running the whole length of it or was it one of the 'commercial' ones which has a multi part spout and a smooth handle with the back end stepped out and thicker than the front and notches right at the end?
Luca Senior Member Joined: 27 Jan 2004 Posts: 2,658 Location: Melbourne, Australia
Espresso: H: Maver W: FB-80 Grinder: H: Super Jolly W: Brasilia... Vac Pot: Hario TCA-2 Roaster: Sample Roaster at Work
Posted Mon Jun 13, 2005, 9:56pm Subject: Re: Just got my Silvia(A$599) and Rocky(A$385), where to get a good tamper
Hey all, just a quickie before I run.
The plastic tamper is, indeed, a POS.
Re: convex vs flat. A flat tamper would make perfect sense if the coffee were dosed flat, but it isn't. What the crotchless pf has shown us is that distribution is more important than tamping. Convex tampers seem to make life a little easier if you're working quickly. Dose, tap pf on table, tamp, get on with your life. It seems to make up slightly for the fact that all grinders will dose a pile of coffee grounds. Drawback is that you can only really tamp once because otherwise the tip of the convex tamper will put pressure on the puck and cause it to break somewhere and it is more important that the tamper be a really good fit. The incasa cheapass ss tampers aren't as curved as the lava tamps, so this isn't too much of a problem. Flat tampers; one would think that there's a greater necessity to level and you're less likely to smash the tamped coffee up.
The reality is that both are sufficient as long as you dose and distribute relatively well.
I'm with Paris; the incasa SS tampers are really good value. One thing that's great about them is that one can run them through the dishwasher! The Greg tamper is a fantastic piece of kit. Greg will make you one that is machined to fit a standard silvia basket perfectly. (Mine is machined to fit the baskets at work; this is quite helpful) In addition, the new guide lines on the side make it easy to be sure that you've got a level tamp. It's like comparing cars; both get you to the same place, but they handle differently, look differently and, of course, there's a price gap.
Cheers,
Luca
scooterboy Said:
finally, which type of pf did mocopan supply with your silvia. is it the 'domestic' one which has a single piece (though detachable) spout and a handle that has ridges running the whole length of it or was it one of the 'commercial' ones which has a multi part spout and a smooth handle with the back end stepped out and thicker than the front and notches right at the end?
BenB Senior Member Joined: 17 Jun 2004 Posts: 466 Location: Perth, Australia Expertise: Professional
Espresso: 2 x 2grp LM Grinder: 2 Swifts, Mazzer Robur
Posted Tue Jun 14, 2005, 8:28am Subject: Re: Just got my Silvia(A$599) and Rocky(A$385), where to get a good tamper
Sorry if we're kinda hj this thread but...
Even if the grinds are dosed in a pile, wouldn't using a convex tamper on a tapper portafilter mean that you have a section within the center of the puck that has greater density that the sections around the outer edges of the portafilter? And then, if you did manage to distribute the grinds evenly throughout the portafilter first (through tapping or another method) wouldn't a convex tamper then compact the grinds in the center more, creating a depression - the water then drops slightly further from the group, possibly creating wormholes, the outer edge of the basket also gets wet first as it is closer to the showerhead, creating a path of least resistance through which all further water tends to move to creating overextracting in the outer area of the puck and underextraction in the inner?
This is all speculation and I completely agree that distribution of the grinds is probably more important. I can't even substantiate this from experience but it just seems (from my layman's perspective) to be the logical progression of things...Luca, you seem to know more - enlighten me! :-)
gregpullman Senior Member Joined: 4 Jul 2002 Posts: 57 Location: Adelaide, Australia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Expobar Minore III Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly Roaster: Hottop B&P, redundant Gene...
Posted Tue Jun 14, 2005, 11:45pm Subject: Re: Just got my Silvia(A$599) and Rocky(A$385), where to get a good tamper
Hi guys,
I hate to get involved in this sort of discussion since I'm in this exact industry, and don't want my comments to come across as trying to push my particular product, but here we go...
Water_boy: As Luca mentioned, I'm in Melbourne early July and am happy to show you a tamper if you like. You can decide then if you want one or not. Email me if you want to discuss this further (enquiries@coffeetamper.com.au) so any commercial stuff is kept off-list. There are certainly other suppliers of tampers in both Melbourne and Sydney if you wanted someone closer to home.
scooterboy: re the standard Silvia tamper: FYI, no I don't sell through shops at this stage, just online. I suspect the reasons the standard tamper is smaller than it should be is: 1) possibly as you've said, so it doesn't jam, but 1mm is far more than necessary to prevent this if all other things were done properly, and 2) because not all Silvia baskets are created equal. There are variations between different production batches, and if the standard tamper was exactly the right size, then it wouldn't fit at all when they mess up and make the next ones a bit small. At least if it's well undersize, your non-discerning Silvia buyer (if one exists! :)) will be happy that it goes in and tamps rather than being too big and not fitting at all.
1mm may not sound much, well it isn't, but for a tamper it's quite significant. I can tell you from experience how poorly a 58.00mm tamper will fit in a 59.00mm filter basket, and how much circumference tamping you'll have to do to get it all 'evenly tamped' (which is an oxymoron, because you can't ever get consistency when you're doing it over a dozen or so tamps, nor can you hope for speed in production either). It's common for manufacturers to have their tampers 1.5-3mm smaller than the size of the basket, and I guess from their perspective there's never any chance of it not fitting. But for consistency and speed, 1mm is too much tolerance for a tamper, which is why best results have been had when tampers are made to fit the basket.
BenB: re Flat vs convex: I think the philosophy with a convex tamper is: if you've got a pile of coffee in the filter basket, the curve on convex tamper will slide the pile of coffee towards the outside of the basket, thus resulting in hopefully a pretty even spread once the tamp is completed. I don't know how well this happens in practice (Luca would know better than me). If this spread *didn't* occur, then the situation would of course be far worse than using a flat tamper, for exactly the reasons you've mentioned. So my philosophy is: a convex tamper may help out, particularly when the holes in the bottom of the filter basket don't go all the way across and when this extra central pressure could encourage water through the outer edges which may be otherwise missed. But if you're using a 'real' basket and this spread doesn't happen, I can't help thinking a convex would create uneven pressure and lead to uneven extraction, whereas a flat tamper would be more consistent.
But hey, I guess it's one of those debates which have raged for years, and no doubt will continue as long as coffee is consumed! At the end of the day, either will tamp better than nothing!
Guys, there's a big difference between being opinionated and being right.
Frankly, I think that it's more or less academic, as long as the distribution is ok. 'round these parts we dose up enough that when the puck swells from water entering it takes up all of the volume between the shower screen and the basket. I find it difficult to imagine that tamper shape would make that much difference, as long as the coffee isn't distributed badly and is there isn't a fracture in the puck. For this latter reason, I think that it's better to err on the side of lower pressure tamps.
... but that's just my opinion*
Cheers,
Luca
*which is subject to change next time I walk up to a portafilter ;P
Water_Boy Senior Member Joined: 31 May 2005 Posts: 4 Location: Melbourne, Australia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Silvia Grinder: Rocky
Posted Wed Jun 15, 2005, 6:22am Subject: Re: Just got my Silvia(A$599) and Rocky(A$385), where to get a good tamper
Hi all thanks for your contribution, I have pick up valuable things. I think I will try the SS tamper. Thanks for your offer Greg, I would love to have one of your tamper, but I would have hard time convincing my girlfriend why I have to spend another $60 to get a tamper after spend $1k on Rocky and Silvia. The photo below shows my tamper in the filter, and from what I can see it's at least 5mm smaller, so what do people think?? Get one bigger? The filter I measured is around 60mm and the tamper is around 55mm, so should I get a 58mm? 59mm? Thanks
This is how you should have said: "After spend $1k on Rocky and Silvia, I have hard time convincing my girlfriend why I shouldn't spent another 100 bucks on a good tamper!"
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