BounoCafe Senior Member Joined: 11 Aug 2006 Posts: 4 Location: perth Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Fri Aug 11, 2006, 12:42am Subject: Perth’s Coffee Drought
Firstly I would like to say that I’m no highly trained barrister or espresso-judging veteran, but I'm seriously starting to have a problem with Perth's coffee scene.
The accepted definition of espresso is "Espresso has three major parts: the heart, body and, the most distinguishing factor, the presence of crema, which is a reddish-brown foam which floats on the surface of the espresso. " Why is a espresso from the famous Core or Rocket Fuel always missing the crema? Isn’t that an important part of an espresso?
My experiences from Core espresso haven’t proved too enjoyable. Ordering a $2.70 shot and being told by the young barrister what I’m to expect "It should firstly taste like chocolate then leave a burnt tobacco after taste" He was pretty much spot on.
I was also excited to try rocket fuel as well, but after ordering an espresso and receiving a half a cup of coffee I returned it and she poured half of it out and said is that better? (no creama also)
What’s happening to Perth's Coffee scene? Why are we paying nearly $3 for espressos that are not espressos and are meant to be coming from Perth's top coffee houses? The espresso here is as far away as the country the word originates from!!
Personally, I couldn't care less about crema. A lot of ways of increasing crema will make the coffee taste worse, such as adding robusta or pulling shots that are too fast. For some reason, higher temperatures that increase sweetness also seem to make crema fade faster. I have had great shots in Perth, Adelaide, Melbourne and Sydney and most of them have had very little crema. Give me a shot that tastes good over one with heaps of crema any day of the week!
As for flavour, what, exactly, do you expect coffee to taste like? Where have you had good espresso from in the past? What did you like about it?
In January, I had some great shots from Core. Don't know what it's like now; maybe it has gone downhill with the change in ownership ... hurry up and open Epic already, Corey!
That "Rocket Fuel" story is pretty atrocious!
In most cities around Australia, the vast majority of espresso is utter, utter crap. There are maybe two or three places where I'd drink espresso in Melbourne. So you're not alone in thinking that most places suck! Vote with your feet.
Crema is important but not the core of espresso. Also fresh coffee crema can disappear so fast. I've spoken and met the guys at Core and even pulled shots with them, I believe they are an amazing team.
the story about rocket fuel.... i think thats extremely sad and i would just never go back.
Coffeegeeks need to understand business owners work damn hard to make it work. You guys are a small group that make it hell for business owners. I've probably lost write ups because idiots here write about how my coffee is overrated. You put all your money into a business, you are risking it all!! To put the business ahead of your family and your kids, buying expensive equipment like L.M, Roburs and roasters, just to be able to produce a good coffee and educate the basic customer that doesnt know the difference between stale crap and fresh coffee. Some coffeegeeks you will never please. I say to all coffeegeeks that express their comments about us, put your money were your mouth is and open a cafe. Or better come and work with me. I've made my baristi cry many times... just to make you guys happy and i realise now, you guys arent worth it!!!!
Wrong on both counts. Lack of crema, or fast disappearing crema, indicates fundamental problems with the shot. Since 1947 or so, no crema = poor shot. If the crema isn't persistant, you don't have a stable emulsion, which again means that something's wrong. Not always the barista's fault, as the blend, roast, machine etc. have a big influence, but up to the barista to identify and fix.
As for the importance of crema to the core of espresso, I suggest a careful (re)reading of Illy & Viani.
Wrong on both counts. Lack of crema, or fast disappearing crema, indicates fundamental problems with the shot. Since 1947 or so, no crema = poor shot. If the crema isn't persistant, you don't have a stable emulsion, which again means that something's wrong. Not always the barista's fault, as the blend, roast, machine etc. have a big influence, but up to the barista to identify and fix.
As for the importance of crema to the core of espresso, I suggest a careful (re)reading of Illy & Viani.
My non-professional experience is that crema can carry alot of flavour. The best shots I've ever tasted seemed to be driven by the crema. Of course I'm learning all the time, so take this with a grain of salt.
"just to make you guys happy and i realise now, you guys arent worth it!!!! "
Andrew, that's probably true enough. Geeks certainly wont make a business rich. Still they can spread the gospel. The problem with geeks is that the taste of coffee is a subjective experience. I've tasted a few local brews from hyped cafes that didn't live up to my expectations, or what I'm searching for. However, I realise that taste is very subjective and so refrain from making directed comments on a public forum. Bad practice is another story, but if the shots are pouring well and are technically good, then who am I to say they're crap just because I don't like the taste. I'll just vote with my feet.
I realise there's a lot more to running a business than simply making good coffee. Nevertheless, if you make good coffee, you don't need to please the geeks as peoples taste buds will do the talking regardless of what the geeks think of the business.
That's an unfortunate story about Core but it too early to make a call on the new owners. The transition to the a new owner is probably never free of trouble. From what I've seen and heard the new owners are genuine about keeping the standards up. I think it's too early yet to pass any judgment on them.
Andy - good coffee, can it be overrated in the dishwater coffee world we live in? Anyone putting in an effort and producing a good cup (by objective CG standards) deserves full credit. It's a tough gig making good coffee. If your detractors don't understand enough to see that then their not Geeky enough.
Hey Riccardo, a couple of things. Firstly, if you were to search the internet (or this site) for Perths most highly rated coffee you would probably find Core Espresso as the top choice for aficionados. This fact, I believe was accurate when I was the manager/ owner at Core and we had wonderful, talented baristas all performing to their potential to prepare the ultimate cup. About 6 weeks ago, Core Espresso was sold and new owners took over, since that time my baristas have gradually left that business to the point where now only one original Core barista remains (this barista will leave in 3 weeks). So basically those comments regarding Core's quality were accurate then but are possibly not accurate now. The barista who gave you the blend description regarding the Core blend was incorrect and needs to learn the correct descriptors for that particular blend. Secondly, you mention the accepted definition of espresso including; heart, body and crema. Well I have been a professional in the area of specialty coffee for almost 3 years now and I've never heard of the 'heart' of an espresso. When speaking of an espresso we refer to aroma, body, acidity, sweetness, crema and varietal flavours. Regarding the crema, I side with Alan. Correct crema is a vital part of any well prepared espresso. The crema holds a high proportion of the coffee's aromatics, oils and flavours. However like Schomer comments, the best espressos, and the best crema are a deep hazelnut in colour with reddish reflections and are extremely fragile and will dissipate quickly. Espresso needs to be drunk at the bar, in a pre-heated (not paper) cup, immediately after brewing (when the crema is still present) and not after waiting even a minute. In a well prepared extraction expect the crema to dissipate fast. If however you watch the extraction coming out of the machine you will notice that with fresh coffee the entire pour coming out of the portafilter and into the cup is crema. Also as Luca mentioned the other ways of increasing crema are not beneficial to the espresso experience so we choose not to do them. Without being commercial, I would like to welcome you Riccardo to drop in at Epic Espresso in Outram Street in West Perth when we open in mid September. We would love to make you a coffee to demonstrate what has been mentioned above and also to let you experience first hand our dedication and passion to creating the perfect cup. My baristas and myself would be very willing to sit down with you and chat regarding coffee and the way we prepare our espresso, we would love the opportunity to prove the words we speak. I promise perfect (albeit fragile) crema!
Thanks for the invite Corey, I heard you were moving on from Core espresso just wasn't sure when. I agree that espresso needs to be drunk at the bar but in reality that's not possible for most cafe` owners. I don't expect the crema to disappear fast in a well prepared extraction, I expect it to stay because when it's served, or brought to your table, the fundamentals should all still be there.
There has to be ways of increasing the crema and the duration of it without greatly affecting the taste, this should be focused on more importantly because to me, it seems to be common among the coffee geeks to overlook this fundamental part of espresso. It appears that it wouldn't shock some of you to be served an espresso that has the crema missing or only slight slight crema.
Andrew you have it made here in Australia buddy where the majority of people like you said don't know the difference between stale crap and fresh coffee. Your not running your business to please the geeks but to make a living. Trust me, if you were living in Europe where espresso is a way of life you would have a really hard time, so enjoy the slack.
As a consumer I feel passionate about good espresso but I feel that for the sake of details we are forgetting the big picture of what a good espresso should contain. Plus on a side note, anybody tried coffee from Grind? I haven't been game enough to try it since Boyd left.
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