pstam Senior Member Joined: 27 Jan 2004 Posts: 2,090 Location: Beijing Expertise: Professional
Espresso: ECM, SAN MARCO, EURO 2000 Grinder: MAZZER Vac Pot: YES Drip: YES Roaster: YES, HOME STYLE
Posted Sat Jun 14, 2008, 6:20am Subject: Bad situation for the Chinese coffee market
I've been in Guangzhou for our training work for more than three months. I found that the local coffee market, and maybe also for other cities in China, is getting smaller and very poor. It was mainly for the poor quality of coffee drinks, IMHO. Many of the local fanchised coffee shops was dead, and also those private coffee shops. The situation is the same for those, like Blend or Blends.
The satuation for Beijing is some way better, maybe for the reason of Olympic Games.
As we said in the past posts, *$s and most other cafes had been telling people that, coffee is not a kind of tasty drink, and not drink it any more. This is specially important due to the most local people know coffee only from those cafes, including *$s. And now, our cafes have to re-educate clients to loet them know coffee drinks again. It is hard and takes a long time.
Recently, I visited the forums of internet about coffee in Taiwan, I found that there were almost no visitors since 2007 till 2008. It seems that the members of those forums are not interested in coffee any more. Does it mean that the market there is not good as we can see in the mainland of China.
We expect someone can open their own cafes in our style, in Guangzhou. But, it won't be happen very soon. Hope we can have some one in this year.
How is about yours? It might be good for you because many of your local people have the habit to drink coffee. Much more than China.
Peter in Beijing ------------------- http://www.kaffa.cn/ ------------------- I have got a new website, just started to establish. If you have any question or suggestion, let me know and it is mostly appreciated.
I don't believe it is as much of a problem here in Taiwan, and I feel the coffee market is OK. Yes a great deal of people still favor 85 C or Starbuck (and smaller places like E-Coffee). But the traditional Cafe Coffee shops are doing well, especially in the south.
I don't believe it is as much of a problem here in Taiwan, and I feel the coffee market is OK. Yes a great deal of people still favor 85 C or Starbuck (and smaller places like E-Coffee). But the traditional Cafe Coffee shops are doing well, especially in the south.
Are there many cafes, where people can get good shots, and what coffee most local people like to drink? I do like to hear something about the coffee in Taiwan from you.
Peter in Beijing ------------------- http://www.kaffa.cn/ ------------------- I have got a new website, just started to establish. If you have any question or suggestion, let me know and it is mostly appreciated.
Peter in Beijing ------------------- http://www.kaffa.cn/ ------------------- I have got a new website, just started to establish. If you have any question or suggestion, let me know and it is mostly appreciated.
I don't believe it is as much of a problem here in Taiwan, and I feel the coffee market is OK. Yes a great deal of people still favor 85 C or Starbuck (and smaller places like E-Coffee). But the traditional Cafe Coffee shops are doing well, especially in the south.
Peter in Beijing ------------------- http://www.kaffa.cn/ ------------------- I have got a new website, just started to establish. If you have any question or suggestion, let me know and it is mostly appreciated.
Tcampbells Senior Member Joined: 3 Jan 2008 Posts: 92 Location: Taiwan Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Rancilio Silvia / Stove top... Grinder: Rancilio Rocky / Solis 166 Vac Pot: Hario 3 cup Siphon Drip: Braun 4 Cup classic Roaster: My local Organic coffee...
Posted Sat Jun 21, 2008, 1:29am Subject: Re: Bad situation for the Chinese coffee market
There are a few places that make pretty good espresso, but really I think espresso is more of a home market here. Coffee is more likely to be Siphon or a Cappa and Latte then it would be to get a true espresso.
The shops I have went to and ordered straight espresso usually comment that it is the first "straight" espresso they serve all week. And if you ask for a Dippo or straight espresso (even when it is listed on the menu) many shops say "You know that is a small drink. The tiny cup, just 1 oz. Are you sure you want that." at which point I know not to order there.
pstam Senior Member Joined: 27 Jan 2004 Posts: 2,090 Location: Beijing Expertise: Professional
Espresso: ECM, SAN MARCO, EURO 2000 Grinder: MAZZER Vac Pot: YES Drip: YES Roaster: YES, HOME STYLE
Posted Sat Jun 21, 2008, 7:28am Subject: Re: Bad situation for the Chinese coffee market
Tcampbells Said:
There are a few places that make pretty good espresso, but really I think espresso is more of a home market here. Coffee is more likely to be Siphon or a Cappa and Latte then it would be to get a true espresso.
The shops I have went to and ordered straight espresso usually comment that it is the first "straight" espresso they serve all week. And if you ask for a Dippo or straight espresso (even when it is listed on the menu) many shops say "You know that is a small drink. The tiny cup, just 1 oz. Are you sure you want that." at which point I know not to order there.
You are right. That is why we are going to change it.
Peter in Beijing ------------------- http://www.kaffa.cn/ ------------------- I have got a new website, just started to establish. If you have any question or suggestion, let me know and it is mostly appreciated.
Tcampbells Senior Member Joined: 3 Jan 2008 Posts: 92 Location: Taiwan Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Rancilio Silvia / Stove top... Grinder: Rancilio Rocky / Solis 166 Vac Pot: Hario 3 cup Siphon Drip: Braun 4 Cup classic Roaster: My local Organic coffee...
Posted Sun Jun 22, 2008, 6:49am Subject: Re: Bad situation for the Chinese coffee market
I honestly think there will never be a change in the market. Just like beer and home brewed beer, there are some that like both, some that like neither, some that like one and some that like the other.
Home market from espresso is there but it is a relatively small market. Most people would not be bother woith all the fuss to make "coffee" in their words. and that applies to even a lot of people who can "taste the differece" (to say nothing about the people who can't tell the difference between good espresso and what Starbucks or many other shops serve)
No matter how good the espresso gets in most shops that majority of people are looking for the suppersweet, foamy coffee drinks with the chocolate sprinkles on top, not high quality espresso that can be consumed by itself.
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