birdsandbeans Senior Member Joined: 24 Aug 2003 Posts: 39 Location: Toronto Expertise: Pro Roaster
Roaster: Ambex YM15
Posted Tue May 6, 2008, 7:42am Subject: Re: The greenbeanery - how good are their green beans?
ok I didn't want to get too commercial but here's what I'll say about it.
The Fair Trade certification is not a quality certification. So, some FT coffees are better than others. I don't buy the argument that all FT coffees are from the "bottom of the barrel" because that has not been my experience. We've had some very good FT coffees over the years and continue to offer those that we and our customers like. It would have been a shame not to enjoy those coffees just because they are FT certified. Buy from people you trust and try a little before you buy a lot. Keep an open mind and enjoy the coffee.
About half of our coffees are FT certified, so you can make your choice and still support sustainably produced coffee.
Posted Thu May 8, 2008, 4:32pm Subject: Re: The greenbeanery - how good are their green beans?
I too do not want to get into this FT issue but for the past year I have only used Fair Trade / Organic beans. As of yet, they have all been just as good as a regular bean. This is the first I have heard of the FT roaster getting the bottom of the bucket and question that point due to my experience with roasting and cupping FT beans.
That is my one cent on this topic. The other 99 cents is another story.
Stewart Senior Member Joined: 20 Jun 2003 Posts: 412 Location: North of Toronto Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Rancilio Silvia Grinder: Mazzer Mini,*$ Barista/Solis... Vac Pot: E Santos,Vintage... Drip: not Roaster: 4 lb RK drum,SC/GG combo,WB...
Posted Mon May 12, 2008, 6:15pm Subject: Re: The greenbeanery - how good are their green beans?
BrainInAJar Said:
In my albeit limited experience, most certified Fair Trade(tm) coffees tend to be pretty poor, and I imagine it has something to do with farmers selling off their top quality beans for a higher price and not having to give TransFair a chunk of that money for the privilege, and then selling the bottom of the barrel crop as certified via TransFair dealers.
Am I mistaken in this assumption, have I just had bad experiences thus far?
If they can sell their beans at a decent profit then they would try to sell them all this way. As it is, Trans Fair offers them the decent price for the beans, I don't think they have to shell out a huge chunk of money for the certification, otherwise no one would participate in it. I seem to have heard that part of the problem is you have to join the co-op and sell all your beans there- they might think they are getting locked in and won't benefit from an increase in coffee prices. If a farmer is too far away from the co-op then he would have to travel and spend more money to essentially get the same return on the coffee. Not a perfect system but hey, what is?
As for taste of Organic, Fair Trade, etc, I have like David had good and bad- no guarantees promised.
You pay your money and you take your chances-make sure you get a sample first!!!
Kaelin, thanks again for pointing out that ordering from SM's isn't all that expensive...and the Harrar, best coffee I've ever had!
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I ordered 12 pounds and the total cost per pound (including shipping, there was no duty/taxes) was around $7...not bad.
Now to the Harrar, it was the Ethiopia Harar Horse DP - Lot 17406. Tom's notes mentioned that you can coax blueberry flavors from it at C+/FC. Well I roasted it in my freshroast, outside when it was only about 15C. I guess the lower ambient temperature stretched the roast a bit (about 8-10 minutes + cooling), and the result was great (was surprised at the very uneven roast color, looked ugly). After cracking open the jar I instantly smelled the blueberry notes, and after grinding it was even more intense. The taste this morning is great. Only problem is I only ordered 2 pounds! I also roasted some monkey and will be trying that soon.
Hey Jason, Glad you enjoyed it... I had ordered 4 lbs of the harrar and just ordered 5 more. I also got 5 lbs each of the kenyans that he has on offer.
Noonievut Said:
the result was great (was surprised at the very uneven roast color, looked ugly).
This is pretty typical of dry processed coffees from what I know. You can always pick out the few beans that really resisted the roast (as Tom has suggested). I recommend giving the harrar a try as a SO espresso. It'll blow your mind! I had success with smaller doses/fine grind.
BrainInAJar Said:
In my albeit limited experience, most certified Fair Trade(tm) coffees tend to be pretty poor, and I imagine it has something to do with farmers selling off their top quality beans for a higher price and not having to give TransFair a chunk of that money for the privilege, and then selling the bottom of the barrel crop as certified via TransFair dealers. Am I mistaken in this assumption, have I just had bad experiences thus far?
I was meaning to reply to this ages ago...I was lucky enough to make it to Minneapolis for SCAA conference, and away from my computer. Anyhow, I really don't think (as others have already replied) that this happens. Many farmers don't even have the means and or experience to evaluate their own coffees. Peter Giuliano of Counter Culture Coffee and Duane Sorensen of Stumptown led a program in Africa to teach farmers how to cup their own coffees, instead of leaving it in the hands of brokers and middle men.
Quality isn't a huge part of the equation in Fair Trade and that might be one of the weaknesses for a quality focused coffee community like ours. The biggest problem I see with the current set up is that idividual farms and farmers can't get certified by Transfair, only cooperatives (individual chocolate farmers can get certified, not coffee). This CAN mean that outstanding lots might get mixed in with ones of lesser quality. This is also a reason why the "Direct Trade" model used by Intelligentsia, Counter Culture, etc has gained such momentum. However, smart cooperatives like Oromia in Ethiopia recognize the need to distinguish themselves in the Fair Trade marketplace and have done an incredible job in producing some great coffees. In fact, they came in 5th in the SCAA's coffee of the year competition in 2007. Also, Konga Cooperative in Ethiopia produced an excellent coffee this year, some of which I enjoyed at the 49th parallel booth at SCAA on a chemex, excellent cup!
It is a very complex issue, and I think many people buy Fair Trade because "it's the right thing to do". This doesn't really do justice to the complexity of the situation and justice to the farmers. We have to get people to see coffee not just as a commodity but to recognize its potential quality; that it is an agricultural crop that varies from year to year, region to region and takes a lot of careful care and processing on the part of the farmer, roaster, and barista to maximize the potential in the bean. I think most of us realize that in this community, that is why we are here. (I feel like cheering for us now: "Go Forth, and Share Great Coffees, hoorah!)
KGB Senior Member Joined: 5 Apr 2004 Posts: 47 Location: Toronto Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sat May 24, 2008, 10:46pm Subject: Re: The greenbeanery - how good are their green beans?
I've been roasting for years, and one thing I've learned about buying green beans in Toronto is...pick which priority you want...either you want to save the planet...or you want the best coffee. But you can't have both.
Greenbeanery is a flaky outfit that knows little about coffee....and less about customer service. I go on and off them here and there in my more-or-less unsuccessful quest for great beans.
Decided to give them another go recently when they "opened" that place at Bloor & Bathurst (they are painfully slow at everything, so maybe in a couple of years from now, they might be finished doing whatever it is they are doing there). I grabbed a few 1/2 lb bags of things that sounded worth a try. The Guatemala Antigua roasted up really nice...Wow. Went back and bought a 2lb bag....and it was crap. Different batch? Not stored properly/contaminated? Wrong sticker on it?
Who cares...dealing with that outfit is only good if you are "feeling lucky".
Birds & Beans...what can i say..a little more discerning about what they buy. Unfortunately, their priority is saving the planet (or I should say, catering to people who think they are by purchasing all these various "certified" products)...not high quality.
Certified Organic...Fair Trade...Bird Friendly...blah blah blah. Aside from the massive hypocrisy and scam surrounding the whole corporate hijacking of these "labels" to dupe the unsuspecting/uninformed consumer...I just don't care.
I will save the planet some other way. I have decided that I'm not going to compromise on getting the best quality beans.
And if that means a kitten has to be strangled for every pound I buy...then so be it.
End of rant. I hope you can tell the difference between the humorous parts and the serious parts.
Posted Sun May 25, 2008, 4:58am Subject: Re: The greenbeanery - how good are their green beans?
AFAIK, most coffee producing countries have poor economies. Beans are manually processed. I don't think they can afford heavy pesticide use or much automated machinery. By necessity they're pretty green.
I do think coffee producers should be paid fair market prices for their beans. I don't agree with the consumer having to pay more for lower quality just because it's tagged Fair Trade or Organically Certified.
It's good to have a comprehensive coffee vendor in Toronto but my experience with Greenbeanery's green bean quality and my impression of their service and coffee knowledge is also hit and miss. They lack consistency and seem more focussed on overhead and filling orders than knowing their stock. If you've got good coffee knowledge they have some good deals but I'm wary of their advice for help.
I've got just about every bean Greenbeanery carries and the roasts are o.k. but I'm starting to get to a point with roasting that the quality of the bean is starting to have an influence in roast character. When my stock needs replenishing I might give Sweet Maria's or another more serious vendor a try.
mp Senior Member Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Posts: 55 Location: Mississauga, Ontario Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sun Jun 8, 2008, 9:01pm Subject: Re: The greenbeanery - how good are their green beans?
I've purchased coffee from the GB before and the coffee was ok. I've never used the B&B. I've also purchased from Burman, SM, and CCM. The coffee from them was ok, good, and sometimes great.
Membership is free and some members take it upon themselves to buy bags of coffee send samples to 4 or 5 people, and if the cupping is good offer distribution to the members. It is done on a first come first serve basis. The coffee received here is allways excellent, very well priced slightly over shipped cost to cover bagging and distribution in flat rate insured USPS boxes. There is even distribution of some FTO, CoE, and Best of Coffees. I would never consider buying coffee now anywhere else.
Posted Mon Jun 9, 2008, 1:03pm Subject: Re: The greenbeanery - how good are their green beans?
Hi MP, You must think I'm stalking you now. You said it so well I've got nothing more to add except I concur. Not sure when I'll be doing a Canadian Distribution but will post here as well when I've got something ready to go.
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