Having not read CG for a few days, then happened across the thread that Mark recently, and quite rightly imo, had to lock because of the shenanigans which he outlined in that thread, I want to take up his suggestion to discuss the UK scene in a more positive light.
When I first became interested in speciality coffee a number of years back, like most, I wanted to find a source of top quality roasted coffee beans. I looked on the internet and could findd three or four retailers at most. All were very small; none had become larger than anyone else at that point. I will not name them all here because I do not want this thread to become about my, or anyone else's critical opinion of, any individual or business. I think that being a micro-roaster in the UK is a tough enough task without individuals from within what is a very small community lambasting what other people are trying to achieve. The risk of doing so is that as each grows in turn, he will be criticised solely for that act of success.
One of the websites that I found during my search belonged to hasbean, but a couple of the others attracted me more for some reason that is now lost in the past. I ordered from one roaster and the beans were good. However, for my taste they were a little 'toasty', so I moved on to another. I thought those beans were somewhat stale and far too dark for my liking. Eventually, after returning to supermarket coffee for a couple of weeks, I ordered from HasBean and liked what arrived in the post.
Apart from home-roasting, we now regularly source beens from a number of retailers, including some very obscure names and a couple of quite big ones. Like many others, I also hope shortly to be enjoying what James, Anette and Stephen are doing.
When I started my coffee journey, the few micro-coffee roasters that existed in the UK were all about the same size. Just as with any industry, some grow quicker than others in a free market economy and we now have one or two people with a reasonable level of prominance in the mainstream market. HasBean is certainly one of them and James' Gourmet another. In my opinion, James Hoffmann's television appearances have helped raise awareness in the UK. Knowing my love for all things coffee, a number of people have even asked me if the guy on The Paul O'Grady Show/Ready Steady Cook was making the type of coffee that I'm interested in and waffle on about. They seemed genuinely impressed by James' craft - but then aren't we all though! Similarly, not long back, there were very few indie coffee shops selling decent gourmet coffee. Most of them were (and unfortunately many still are) selling poorly made cappuccinos, be they correctly proportioned but woefully thin creations using poor commercial beans, or those famous 1970s style dishfoam topped monstrosities that we all remember from our childhoods (well us oldies do).
No wonder the advent of the big chains in the UK brought with it a revolution that still persists to a large extent today. I remember very few years ago that most people thought the pinnacle of perfection in coffee was a 12oz bucket from one of the big boys. Without doubt, the majority still do, simply because most of them have never had the chance to sample anything better. I'm sure that they would recognise better quality if they tried it but unfortunately the UK speciality scene is still small enough that many have not had the chance - yet. The good news is that in the past year or three, I have noticed more people are becoming critical of the big chains, and I don't mean for non-coffee reasons such as perceived ethics. The speciality scene must be getting the message across to a slightly larger audience in the UK because there are now a few more knowledgable enough to criticise the chains in respect of flavour and presentation. I know it is still a tiny minority, but things are definately improving.
There is a really good speciality coffee scene in London right now, with many world class baristi and a handful of world champions as well. Places like Flat White, Milk Bar, Fernandez & Wells, Sacred and Monmouth, to name just a few, srtive to bring better coffee to the masses whilst maintaining very high standards. Regional indies who do it properly have sprung up too, notably but not limited to, the amazing Barry Lawenson at Roasters who took on the big boys in Scarborough and now has two coffee shops, and UKBC Champion Hugo Hercod at Relish down in sunny Cornwall.
Not so long ago, many UK home enthusiasts sought to attain the heady heights of the venerable Silvia/Rocky combo for their home espresso exploits. It was certainly my ultimate aim in the early days. Then came the advent of the so-called 'prosumer' machines. Some went a step further still and purchased fully loaded commercial kit. Eventually, we all moved that way. I have noticed in the past couple of years that many new members of UK forums have by-passed the traditional 'steam-toy' nursery machines and gone straight in at prosumer or commercial level, suggesting a greater awareness of the potential that the latter offer over the limitations of the former. This is as a direct result of good education and the availability of advice to newcomers.
So what is my point? It is to rejoice that we do have choices, some are larger now and others still very small, but without doubt we do have more options. We have exciting new ventures beginning which will only serve to raise awareness of speciality coffee in the UK. Everyone has the same chances, the same opportunities. We have to work together in order to increase the gourmet coffee market in the UK so that the speciality scene grows, and smaller ventures inspired by the successes of those who have gone before them can also grow and fulfill their potential.
The future is bright and gaining momentum here in the UK, even if it is not yet moving at lightspeed. We have a good community and there is room for everyone to do their thing.
SeamusMcFlurry Senior Member Joined: 10 Jul 2008 Posts: 11 Location: Newcaslte, UK Expertise: Pro Barista
Posted Thu Jul 31, 2008, 12:29pm Subject: Re: UK Scene
Well said. As a great man said "f**king speciality coffee will kick the asses of all the sh*tty coffees in the world". Roll on. But we need to work together to bring the UK industry to the heady heights that it absolutely deserves to grow to. We need to make Starbucks and Costa work for their money, and I personally relish the prospect of being on the sharp end of this coming revolution.
leecb Senior Member Joined: 21 Jan 2007 Posts: 4 Location: London UK Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Quickmill Andreja Premium,... Grinder: Mazzer mini
Posted Fri Aug 1, 2008, 1:45am Subject: Re: UK Scene
I completely agree with your sentiments Cakeboy. I have to say also that I think most people in the specialty coffee business are generous and passionate about there product/craft and it is unsurprising that occaisionally a stranger comes in and in complete ignorance and self serving aggrandisement seeks to upset people and make points that are ill thought out and ill advised, at the very least. We cannot know the motives of Queynte, but I have usually found in life that people who behave that way are either attempting to sell something or to raise their own proflie. He doesn't seem to realise that we are a very small community, who know and trust each other and when an outsider tries to attack "one of our own" sparks tend to fly!! Fortunately this really is the exception to the rule here and I wouldn't want anyone to think otherwise!
The positive things that I see happening in the UK coffee scene apart from the afore mentioned bunch of passionate people (or some might say obsessive addicts LOL) is the fact that less and less people who come as friends or customers to try well-made coffee are scathing and uninterested, but are willing to try new things and often then become more thoughtful about where they buy their own coffee, whether beans or prepared. We can never expect that a large percentage of people are going to behave in the irrational way we do, but if we can convince 5% of the population that there is a better way we would be doing very well and in so doing would encourage more small businesses to be interested in the product they are selling. In London there are finally more small businesses opening roasting and /or making coffee who do care and outside London there are some shining beacons too as mentioned by Cakey. To try and encourage one business by denigrating the success, due to sheer hard work, of someone elses business is obviously ridiculous and I hope he has realised that at least. I don't post very often here but felt that this has really made the coffee scene here look nasty and infantile and I wanted to try to point out some more positive attributes as well. I have had nothing but help, support, guidance and advice from everyone in this business, both professional and passionate home barista, roaster or general machine geek (which believe me I need when things go wrong!!)
RoasterDean Senior Member Joined: 4 May 2008 Posts: 23 Location: Kent, UK Expertise: Pro Roaster
Roaster: Probat 10 kilo
Posted Fri Aug 1, 2008, 10:22am Subject: Re: UK Scene
Hi All, Im quite new to posting on these forums, but I've recently made it a priority to get a bit more involved in the specialty coffee 'scene', so here goes.
In our experience, the changes that could have the most impact on the UK scene is to progress people from the standard over-roasted supermarket coffee to fresh, slow roasted good quality coffee. We do have a few customers who talk to us about how our beans may be chocolately this, or berries that which is fantastic and interesting and makes us feel like we're doing things right. But by far the most significant (in my opinion) comments are when customer tell us that they had never tried freshly roasted coffee before, and they simply cant believe the difference between fresh coffee and the stuff they normally buy on the supermarket shelves.
Now Im aware that these forums are mainly about the very best that coffee can deliver, and stories of customers having amazing experiences progressing up from stale illy beans may be old news (yawn), but outside London, where most of our customers live there is (I hope) a bit of a mini revolution happening.
Im not sure if its a case of the equipment getting more out of better coffee or what, but we have a very high level of customer retention. Id like to think it's because we are roasting gods, but a far more likely explanation is that our coffee (purely by virtue of the fact that it's freshly slow roasted from good stock) is just so much better than what people are used to.
Im not sure that any kind of dramatic appreciation of specialty coffee is on the cards for the coffee business in the UK, but I think getting people out of the supermarkets and into borough market or online to hasbean, square mile, or any other quality roaster (or dare I say it - our site) to buy their coffee is definately the next big step.
I was on James Hoffmans site today (for the first time) and I was fascinated with his experiences with a chemex brewer which I had never come across before. Before I knew it I was writing notes and promising myself to go online and order chemex kit and some gethumbwini coffee from hasbean to see if I can get what James got out of it. I noted the grind info and the quantities plus water temperatures etc, but I then thought that 99.9% of my existing customers will never go to this effort for a cup of coffee. I would (and will), because Im excited. Readers of this post probably would also (or have already), but I guess we may always be in the minority.
If we get the public at large to buy freshly roasted good quality coffee from skilled roasters, I reckon the battle for the masses will be just about as 'won' as it is ever likely to be.
bagelfairy Senior Member Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 12 Location: Ithaca, NY Expertise: Just starting
Posted Fri Aug 8, 2008, 10:02am Subject: Re: UK Scene
As a non coffee person (trust me you don't want to know how I drink my coffee) who wants proper coffee in her shop, I was inundated with all sorts of large companies (Darlington's, Blaise Tea and Coffee, all the scary coffee companies that supply large hotels/restaurants, etc.) offering super sweet deals and instead I've went with both Burgil Coffee originally and now Square Mile Roasters (James and Anette's Brand.)
At this point, the quibbling between the 'independent' roasters is completely moot, because we should be happy that we have ANY in the UK out there. I was offered anywhere from free Marzocco Lineas, to the complete grinder/bar setup, 24/7 maintenance and emergency calls, and only 8 pounds per kg for middling to awful coffee. Instead I bought my own very hot Enzo (4-ish group FB/70), my own grinders (including an Anfim one with a timer!), and invested in the bar and staff myself, with the expectation that I would be able to find a quality roaster which I have fortunately done twice.
Most cafes, will and have taken that 'sweet' deal, even really nice cafes, because to them, at the end of the day, most UKers who are happy to take a starbucks etc. are the exact same Ukers who will eat a pret-a-manger sandwich, chicken and chips, over a real freshly made meal.
I think the forum in general is so wrapped up in its niche (Hasbean vs. Square Mile vs. Union vs. Monmouth etc. etc. etc.) that it ignores the bigger picture in that all that is a small drop in the bucket against the real behemoths that have millions at their disposal and can give away machines and service just to sell their commodity. And to them, coffee is a commodity--not a craft or valuable resource as it really is. If you want your cafe to sell decent quality coffee, you need to show them that you're willing to pay for it, because they make more money selling bad coffee than they do selling good coffee, and not just on kg price.
Anyway for my two cents, I don't see how anyone thinks of Square Mile as big as Monmouth or anything like that---my delivery comes in the form of a panting bearded Irishman with a farmer's tan who's just biked up a 5-minute hill with 20 kgs of coffee behind him, just in time to drop off my coffee in the middle of my really busy lunch service. And if you don't know who I'm talking about, you're so out of the loop.
Posted Fri Aug 8, 2008, 2:19pm Subject: Re: UK Scene
bagelfairy Said:
.... my delivery comes in the form of a panting bearded Irishman with a farmer's tan who's just biked up a 5-minute hill with 20 kgs of coffee behind him, just in time to drop off my coffee in the middle of my really busy lunch service. And if you don't know who I'm talking about, you're so out of the loop.
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