Posted Tue Dec 21, 2004, 3:32pm Subject: Espresso variability...Austin shop.
I went by JP's last weekend. I've been working with my Gaggia Carezza for a couple of weeks, so I thought I'd drop by for a sanity/taste check.
I found the Latte I ordered to be a bit weak and uninspiring. I had planned on getting some of their beans, and not seeing any on the shelf, I asked about it. The guy said sure..."I'll have to get some out of the back and bag it for you." I could see him as he opened a brand new bag of Zoka beans and bagged my Lb. of Paladino Espresso and decaf. Cool...a fresh bag! Don't know if it was from their latest weekly shipment, but I knew it hadn't sat in their display for a week.
When I got home, I decided I'd check the beans out. I'm pretty certain they're fresh. LOT's of crema and my homemade latte reminded me of earlier foray's to JP's. One of these days I'll dig out my digital camera...but Jonr10 will be hard to follow!
I guess us home enthusiasts aren't the only ones with espresso consistancy issues.
Just an observation...
Later,
-- Tom
"Modesty is for those who have no Talent!" Lazarus Long
ayn Senior Member Joined: 1 Apr 2003 Posts: 60 Location: Bay Area, CA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Silvia Grinder: Rocky
Posted Sun Jan 2, 2005, 7:25pm Subject: Re: Espresso variability...Austin shop.
Yes, I was very excited about JP's the first time I was there after reading glowing reviews here, but the next 2 times were mediocre. I am a lot more consistent with my setup than the shops in Austin. And this is from having to temp-surf my Silvia as it doesn't have an E61 or a pressure gauge. heh.
It's not uncommon for me to have a bad day once in a while.... especially when I close and then open (ouch). You'd be surprised how much a little something can take away your focus at work and lead to lower quality drinks.
To me being behind the bar is a challenge not only to make good drinks, but too keep up the level of focus and intensity of passion that provides that kind of experience to the customer.
that all said I'm not surprised that you find variation of quality in any espresso shop (save the extremely good ones where those barista do it without trying).
very cool about the fresh beans though... hope you enjoyed them
Daniel
Dan Streetman Cuvee Coffee Roasting Company Austin, TX
Here is something to think about that I have noted from my own personal experience.
The flavors you taste one day can be the exact flavors you taste another, yet they are different. For example, I had a very romantic dinner with my wife in Little Italy (NY) and we drank some wine. We both thought the wine was incredible, the food was great, the restaurant was cozy, etc. I made note of the wine and vintage and bought a case when we got home from vacation. We were so excited to open a bottle at home, but much to our surprise, it tasted nothing like we remembered. That was 7 years ago and I still have the rest of the unopened wine. I might have to try some when I am done here.
Also, blened coffee is a strange thing. When you look at the small ammount of coffee in one shot of espresso, it is easy to conclude that the intended ratio of coffee might be out of proportion occasionaly. That being said, grind/dose/tamp, cleanliness of espresso machine and things of that nature can contribute to different flavors, but I thought it was worth mentioning.
That being said, grind/dose/tamp, cleanliness of espresso machine and things of that nature can contribute to different flavors, but I thought it was worth mentioning.
At JP's grind/dose/tamp probably doesn't vary by much if at all because they use a Swift Grinder that does it automatically for each shot. I think the main variable there would be the barista (and I assume that person would be responsible for dialing in the grinder).
Too bad they are not as consistent as they could be. I was in Austin for a weekend and went to JP's both days. The same young lady barista was working both times and she did a GREAT job. The espresso was excellent and her latte was beautiful, with perfect microfoam.
I'll be sure to go back there again next time I'm up that way.
A little variability is part of the charm, I think. Especially of a place like JPs. The worst I've had there is better than the best I've had at all but one or two shops in Austin. Of course, I've got a pretty solid love the place, so I may not approach each visit with a fresh eye.
A couple of thoughts -
Caver Said:
I found the Latte I ordered to be a bit weak and uninspiring.
When there's that much milk, it seems tough to get much inspiration out of it without a seriously bright bean. Zoka is great, but it's also pretty mellow. I think exactly the wrong sort of a shot to add a ton of milk to. I've been tempted to get one a couple of times just to see what they can do with art, but I haven't yet, and wouldn't expect it to be much fun to drink.
EspressoDude Said:
much to our surprise, it tasted nothing like we remembered.
Ain't that the truth. I think it's one of the reasons (forgive me everyone, I know this is verging on sacrilege) that people, including myself, are always so glowy and happy about their own shots. When we make a shot we've got all this time and effort invested in it. And our environment is much more consistent and focused than it is handing over a few bucks in a coffee shop. I'm not knocking the science of building a shot, but tasting an espresso is fundamentally a subjective thing.
Last time I was at JP's the barista (maybe the same as JonR10 mentioned), made a really top notch machiatto. It had a pretty but not exactly symmetrical rosetta, which to me was freaking amazing in a cup that small. I said so, and the barista said, "It wasn't what I was hoping for - I like to do hearts, but guys sometimes get the wrong idea."
JP's folks on the board - what are the chances of letting us civilian CGers sign up for a training? I'm not sure if there's enough interest to merit it, but I for one would happily pay to spend an hour or two at some outrageously slow time (do you have those?) working with the LM with some direct input on techniques from the experts there.
Austin CGers - any interest in meeting up there some evening? I'm thinking weekday after work? Jon - if you're planning on being in town sometime soon, maybe we can coordinate around that?
I would LOVE that, but our next trip to Austin will likely be in mid-to-late February.
And about the latte at JP's, order a "small". It has a double shot and the smaller amount of milk. You could also ask for the same drink with an extra double for more kick. I do agree that the espresso is especially mellow and doesn't cut through milk well.
Just an FYI...When I said the latte was a bit weak and uninspiring, that was in comparison to previous small latte's I'd had at that same shop and not other blends or shops. The drinks weren't bad by any means, just not quite up to what I experienced there in the past.
I know consistency is not easy. I've been working with my Carezza for almost a month now and know how tough that can be. Although I do like the Zoka blend JP's uses, Paladino Espresso. I assume it's the same as on Zoka's web site. It's about time to make another trip down there and pick some up. The last time, they had to open a fresh bag from the back room to make my take home bag-O-beans. VERY fresh!
I'll keep my eye on the thread and see when you guys try to get together at JP's. Going down there during the week is a pain for me...I'm way up north in Austin, near hiway 620, but it would be cool to put some faces to the names here and talk shop.
Later...
-- Tom
"Modesty is for those who have no Talent!" Lazarus Long
Yeah - I've got to get over there to pick up some beans this week too (I've taken a break from Zoka this week and been using some AMAZING beans from Paradise Roasters - Espresso Nuevo). Let's plan on mid-Feb. Jon - post a note when you've got firm dates for Austin and we'll see what we can get together.
Anyone else in the area interested?
-e.
Total side note - I seem not to be getting CG email notifications any more. Anyone experiencing similair problems?
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