JR_Brewing Senior Member Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 28 Location: Dallas, TX Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Isomac Millenium Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly
Posted Tue May 4, 2004, 7:37pm Subject: North Texas Espresso Shops
I am hoping to start an new thread to compile a list of ESPRESSO shops that meet some minimum standards (see below). To include a shop, please list the name and address (with any comments) so that others can try it out.
Minimum Standards
Shots are be hand-tamped (No fully automatic or pod machines!)
Consistently good crema on shots
Drinks served in warmed, porcelain cups, appropriately sized for the type of drink ordered
Shots do not exhibit obvious signs of over- or under-extraction, i.e. bitter, sour, watery
Pull times for shots are within an acceptable range, e.g. between 20 - 30 seconds
Use a commercial-grade machine capable of maintaining consistent temperatures (This is probably not an issue for a dedicated coffee shop but might exclude some restaurants, etc.)
Good micro-foam on milk-based drinks
Certainly, there are more requirements to making a good shot of espresso than the ones mentioned above. However, many of the requirements are not readily discernable from the customer-side of the counter, e.g. exact pressure on the tamp, a smooth puck, quality water, experience of barista, freshness of the beans, etc.
With the exception of the taste characteristics in mentioned in #4, I have avoided mentioning taste. Since taste is very subjective with people preferring lighter vs. darker roasts, etc., I thought that it would be better to focus on more objective characteristics and let each person make his/her own determination.
Obviously, a shop could meet all of the minimum requirements and still make an awful drink. But, if a shop meets the minimum standards and you like it, then in all likelihood other people in this forum will also enjoy it.
Some shops have already been mentioned as good espresso shops in other posts. Please include those shops that meet the minimum requirements again in this post.
Does anyone have any other non-negotiable, minimum requirements that I overlooked?
hyoomen Senior Member Joined: 5 Jan 2004 Posts: 91 Location: Dallas, TX Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Tue May 4, 2004, 8:18pm Subject: Re: North Texas Espresso Shops
I'm working on a future blog-style review site along these lines for N. Texas, but given your minimum standards I'd suggest that there is only one shop I've come across (with the exception being my gf's coffeeshop whenever she in particular is on the bar -- and even just sometimes for her): Jupiter House in Denton.
If you know of any others, please open up. I haven't tried Art of Espresso yet, but I'm pretty skeptical until I've tried it.
So far places I've tried include: Java & Cha, Standard&Pours, Starbucks (numerous), Jupiter House, Créma (defunct), Brickhaus, Uncommon Grounds, Coffee Haus (multiple), Karma, Cappuccino Cafe, Cafe Brazil, Four-Star, Insomnia, Torrefazione, Talenti, Bodum retail front, Obzeet, Legal Grounds, Mug'n'Mouse, Main St. Perks, and I'm sure probably another one or two I can't come up with at the moment.
Jupiter House = #1 (Créma battled out for this spot -- MMMMM INTELLIGENTSIA! -- but I think they all just had to sell the shop & cut their losses on a TERRIBLE location) Main St. Perks in downtown Irving was notable -- at least the espresso was decently fresh. Standard&Pours (where my gf works) has excellent foam whenever she works, though she typically doesn't heat cups or flush PF's & groupheads and they currently use Segafredo. We're trying to get this switched to Cuvée (TX roaster Jupiter House uses). We got samples not too long ago and I pulled the best shot I've ever tasted with Zoka Paladino. YUM!
My goal is to have a site that lists all of the local shops, hours, directions, and multiple reviews (including structured guest reviews). I prefer to test a doppio and a cappuccino or macchiato for full results, but this can result in some pretty buzzed afternoons.
Believe me, though, the reviews are painful. Notably the worst so far were probably Legal Grounds and Torrefazione. I loathe 10 second shots that taste blech.
hyoomen Senior Member Joined: 5 Jan 2004 Posts: 91 Location: Dallas, TX Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Tue May 4, 2004, 8:25pm Subject: Re: North Texas Espresso Shops
PS: I think a minimum requirement should be no commercial roasts (Lavazza, Segafredo, Illy, etc.). This is a bit too far, though. We'll have to make do for now.
BTW, while not all of the WFM locations have great coffee, the Plano WFM has a dedicated coffee bar with a roaster and super-auto machine. Got a doppio the other day, but even though it was off of a superauto, it was SMOOOTH! No bitterness. Very tasty, overall.
JR_Brewing Senior Member Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 28 Location: Dallas, TX Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Isomac Millenium Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly
Posted Wed May 5, 2004, 6:28am Subject: Re: North Texas Espresso Shops
Hyoomen,
Sounds like you have already made a good start on creating a list.
I also considered whether to include/exclude commercial roasts. However, I am not sure that good espresso has really taken hold in North Texas yet and didn't want to have the standards so strict that the list was empty. ;)
By the way, I am not familiar with the abbreviation WFM.
It sounds like you would include Jupiter House on this list. I will have to be sure to try it out. Do you have the address for it?
hyoomen Senior Member Joined: 5 Jan 2004 Posts: 91 Location: Dallas, TX Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Wed May 5, 2004, 8:50am Subject: Re: North Texas Espresso Shops
Don't have their address right on hand, though it might be in my txt file at home. Will doublecheck for ya'.
As for directions, they're on the NE corner of the downtown Denton main square (directly across from the courthouse). Actually on the east block.
24 hrs...can't beat it!
Seems like you're more likely to encounter local roasters than you are to encounter proper tamping, grinding, cleaning, timing, etc. Jupter House is the exception.
CaffeCaffe Senior Member Joined: 27 Oct 2003 Posts: 75 Location: Fort Worth, TX Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Livia 90 Auto Grinder: Rocky
Posted Mon May 10, 2004, 1:29pm Subject: Re: North Texas Espresso Shops
I live in Fort Worth and there is no one here who makes good espresso. Maybe its different in Dallas. I was spoiled in Italy so I guess I'm real hard to please SOB. At this point I would settle for a coffee made at one of those rest stops on the Autostrada.
Don't discount commercial blends. A good commercial blend from Italy beats many of these so called fresh roasted blends.
If I was to take the TRE into Dallas (yeh, some FW people actually go to Dallas), what's a good stop to get off and where should I go for a decent cuppa 'spresso???? My three year old want to go on a "big train".
JR_Brewing Senior Member Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 28 Location: Dallas, TX Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Isomac Millenium Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly
Posted Mon May 10, 2004, 2:16pm Subject: Re: North Texas Espresso Shops
One of my favorite images from Italy is seeing some tough, burly trucker sipping an espresso out of single shot cup at a stop on the Autostrada. It's hard to picture that scene ever coming to the U.S.
At any rate, it is not any better on this side of the Metroplex, which is precisely why I am hoping to get some good endorsements on this forum. To date, I believe that the strongest endorsement has been for Jupiter House in Denton, not exactly on the TRE.
hyoomen Senior Member Joined: 5 Jan 2004 Posts: 91 Location: Dallas, TX Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Mon May 10, 2004, 4:49pm Subject: Re: North Texas Espresso Shops
Yeah, the only possible place I can even half recommend would be Standard&Pours (when my gf is working...she at least has more experience than most of the local Starbucks baristas). Don't get your hopes up for the top taste, though...it is stale Segafredo, afterall.
PS: I think most of us would put Zoka or Intelligentsia or Vivace up against any commercial Italian blend, any day of the week. ;) Nothing against the large companies, they're just hindered by time (and size).
CaffeCaffe Senior Member Joined: 27 Oct 2003 Posts: 75 Location: Fort Worth, TX Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Livia 90 Auto Grinder: Rocky
Posted Tue May 11, 2004, 4:31am Subject: Re: North Texas Espresso Shops
I have to remind myself I'm living in Texas, great BBQ, bottomless ice tea, but its not Europe. I used to live in the Boston area and had a guy from near the Salerno Naples area make my coffee on a Bizzera 4 head job with Passalaqua coffee. Man I miss those days.
I nearly went back to Italy with a friend just for a weekend to have a decent tazza di caffe. Best coffee in Italy in my opinion is from Napoli or way up in the mountains. I loved putting that spoonful of sugar ontop of the crema and watching it sit for a moment then dive to the bottom of the cup. Oh, God, I think I'm gonna cry.
I've heard about that place in Denton, but its a bit far from Fort Worth. Maybe I'll check it out in the way to OK someday.
I have to be honest I have a fear of drinking US roasted espresso. Maybe Starbucks has ruined it for me. I have tried Moka Di Oro roasted in Booklyn NY. It really wasn't bad. I think I will give Zoka or Intelligentsia or Vivace a chance someday.
hyoomen Senior Member Joined: 5 Jan 2004 Posts: 91 Location: Dallas, TX Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Wed May 12, 2004, 8:50am Subject: Re: North Texas Espresso Shops
PFFT! Maybe we need to have a shot-off of Zoka, Intelligentsia, Vivace, and whatever people believe to be the top Italian roasteries. I'm not looking for competition, but it just isn't fair to assume that Starbucks is in anyway representative of the best N. America has to offer! ;P
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