Noblechic21 Senior Member Joined: 4 Jul 2007 Posts: 25 Location: Buffalo NY Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: La Marzocco Grinder: Mazzer Drip: Bunn Roaster: Probat
Posted Mon Jun 9, 2008, 6:31pm Subject: Coffee as Culinary art in Upstate NY?
I've been living and working as a Barista in Buffalo NY for a few years now and my family is pushing me to open a cafe in the area and my response every time is that there isn't a call for coffee as culinary art or specialty coffee at all. I feel like this blue collar market is thrilled by Tim Horton's. Am I wrong to think this is there a sleeper cell of coffee geeks yearning for a specialty shop?
Posted Mon Jun 9, 2008, 6:56pm Subject: Re: Coffee as Culinary art in Upstate NY?
Buffalo isn't all that different from Pittsburgh or Cleveland, both of which now have several high-quality coffeehouses. It might be a tad poorer and conservative, but it's still a decent sized city, so there is opportunity. There are others in Central NY (Cafe Kubai, Gimme!, etc.) so I'd think Buffalo could support you.
There's some decent info on how to go about assessing that opportunity online and in the book "Bean Business Basics" (a $200 book, but worth it - maybe you can borrow a copy from someone).
If after absorbing that info you still feel the desire, then write out a business plan and see if you can live with your worst case scenarios (indie coffeehouses rarely make a profit in year one and seldom in year two, although you may have some "in the black" months).
It's not the most efficient way to make money, but if you love coffee and you really like people, you'll enjoy showing up every day. And not everyone can say that.
MarkJackson Senior Member Joined: 25 Oct 2007 Posts: 14 Location: Rochester NY Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Rancilio S-24, Expobar... Grinder: Ranc Rocky, Mazzer Mini
Posted Tue Jun 10, 2008, 5:19am Subject: Re: Coffee as Culinary art in Upstate NY?
I am sure you are familiar with Spot Coffee, I worked there for 6 years and we did some fantastic numbers and also won the Barista competition in 2002. Each store was doing over a million in business and the quality for the roasted coffee was outstanding.
They do not have the same quality as before I dont think but I am not sure. I know there is room for great coffee in almost any city with the right location. The big question is also if you will do food or not as that is a big part of the sales in Buffalo if you have a quality product.
By reading these forums and others I think you can get a feel for what makes a coffee shop great and it is really being focused in on quality and great customer service.
singforsupper Senior Member Joined: 22 Feb 2005 Posts: 489 Location: NY State Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Fiorenzato Bricoletta Grinder: Mazzer Mini E Vac Pot: - Drip: French Press Roaster: Caffe Fresco-Tony Sciandra
Posted Fri Jun 20, 2008, 4:22pm Subject: Re: Coffee as Culinary art in Upstate NY?
I live outside of Buffalo and I have been to the Delaware St. downtown Spot Coffee on and off since 2002 and can say that they are and were NEVER 3rd wave. They are good with sandwiches and sweets and decor. They do not make outstanding espresso and do not offer latte art. I have my doubts as to the market in Buffalo for an establishment as good as say... Gimme Coffee (Ithaca, NY.. etc.).
And NO, Buffalo is not a lot like Pittsburgh or Cleveland. I used to think that when I first moved here and generalized, but if you look at census and demographics, you will see that while Cleveland and Pittsburgh rose from the rust and have come back, Buffalo really has not yet done so. It is more blue collar and it is loosing population at a greater rate and plagued with governmental corruption . So I agree with Noblechic21. I don't think Buffalo is a good market yet. Maybe in a few more years, if Buffalo rises. Don't get me wrong, I want Buffalo to thrive and I like Buffalo in many ways. But one needs to be realistic.
Coffee, I must have coffee, And if anyone wants to give me a treat, Ah!, just give me some coffee!
Noblechic21 Senior Member Joined: 4 Jul 2007 Posts: 25 Location: Buffalo NY Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: La Marzocco Grinder: Mazzer Drip: Bunn Roaster: Probat
Posted Sun Jun 22, 2008, 8:20am Subject: Re: Coffee as Culinary art in Upstate NY?
I agree that spot is lacking, there are no origins mentions in either their espresso or their drip coffee. There is no connection between the beverage buffalonians like to drink and the rest of the world. I think thats a shame. People don't know that their daily purchase helps support either positively or negatively world economies and specialty coffee as a whole.
Which brings me to another subject. Is there specialty coffee being served or are all the coffees being sold in this area bought from the commodities market? I know its being roasted but sold by a subscription mail order service.
singforsupper would you come to a genuine third wave shop if there was one? What would you like to see if I could pick your brain?
singforsupper Senior Member Joined: 22 Feb 2005 Posts: 489 Location: NY State Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Fiorenzato Bricoletta Grinder: Mazzer Mini E Vac Pot: - Drip: French Press Roaster: Caffe Fresco-Tony Sciandra
Posted Sun Jun 22, 2008, 9:38am Subject: Re: Coffee as Culinary art in Upstate NY?
I would like to see a shop modeled after other great shops I adore. Gimme Coffee (Ithaca and NYC), 9Th St. espresso (NYC) Blue Bottle (San Francisco) Bulldog Coffee (Toronto). They serve very few sweets. Not too many different sugary drinks. It's all about excellence in espresso and in milk drinks. Just incredible shots and incredible micro-foam and latte art. The pairing of their shots to the micro-foaming of the milk that releases the sugars in the milk is very sweet and needs nothing else. It's so good that people usually are enlightened and become loyal customers. I would go there EVERY time i drive in to Buffalo!
Having just read an article in "Art Voice" Buffalo's 'Village Voice' one of the main differences of Buffalo and similar towns is the utter lack of Colleges/Universities in the Downtown hub of Buffalo. Colleges and Univ. that are in the heart of downtown bring in professors students, staff and general public and are a great thing for downtowns. (The article goes into this in detail). But a generation ago, Buffalo planners chose to put the U of Buffalo and Buffalo State in the suburbs. Because of this, Buffalo struggles to revive the downtown and the lack of an academic community really means a lack of customer base for very high end espresso drinks. Typically it seems that *$ and other chains usually corner the market in corporate environments which is the case in downtown buffalo.
Coffee, I must have coffee, And if anyone wants to give me a treat, Ah!, just give me some coffee!
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