jakeliefer Senior Member Joined: 3 Dec 2007 Posts: 27 Location: Beaver Falls, PA Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Mon Jun 23, 2008, 4:38pm Subject: Re: Do you dare rate Pittsburgh's coffee bars?
Thanks Len! I guess sometimes I come across as more of a shop owner. Maybe someday!
I'm down in DC for the week, it's been cool hearing impressions from DC baristas about the Pittsburgh scene. From talking to them, I think we've got a close knit, non-pretentious group in Pittsburgh, which I'm really glad about.
jakeliefer Senior Member Joined: 3 Dec 2007 Posts: 27 Location: Beaver Falls, PA Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Tue Jul 1, 2008, 4:17pm Subject: Re: Do you dare rate Pittsburgh's coffee bars?
So the big news today is that Starbucks is closing 600 shops this year, up from the 100 that was previously expected. Does anyone know which stores are closing in the Pittsburgh area? This could be a great marketing opportunity for the indie shops to pick up some new regulars and perhaps a new store to open.
They mentioned that 70% of the stores closing will be ones that opened after fiscal 2006. I don't know too many that opened that recently, perhaps most of them are out in the suburbs?
Posted Tue Jul 1, 2008, 5:32pm Subject: Re: Do you dare rate Pittsburgh's coffee bars?
jakeliefer Said:
So the big news today is that Starbucks is closing 600 shops this year, up from the 100 that was previously expected. Does anyone know which stores are closing in the Pittsburgh area? This could be a great marketing opportunity for the indie shops to pick up some new regulars and perhaps a new store to open.
They mentioned that 70% of the stores closing will be ones that opened after fiscal 2006. I don't know too many that opened that recently, perhaps most of them are out in the suburbs?
Posted Tue Jul 1, 2008, 7:46pm Subject: Re: Do you dare rate Pittsburgh's coffee bars?
We have two fairly close here in Beaver County (one in Monaca, near the mall) and one in Beaver (yet to open--although it has been delayed quite a while). Remains to be seen...
...looks like that reinvention of coffee with the Pike's Place roast really paid off.
Posted Wed Jul 2, 2008, 5:50am Subject: Re: Do you dare rate Pittsburgh's coffee bars?
beaverfallscoffee Said:
We have two fairly close here in Beaver County (one in Monaca, near the mall) and one in Beaver (yet to open--although it has been delayed quite a while). Remains to be seen...
...looks like that reinvention of coffee with the Pike's Place roast really paid off.
What's interesting about this is that Caribou's stock has dropped like a rock since October (~$7/share to $1.68), but they're still growing (openings > closings) and moving toward franchising. If you look at (admittedly a sketchy non-scientific comparison) market cap/# of stores, the average SBUX store is worth ~$750,000 while the average Caribou store is a mere ~$65,000. In other words, an individual SBUX store is worth about 75% of its annual revenue while a Caribou store is worth about 12% of its annual revenue. Granted, SBUX has considerably more non-store revenue, but something seems wrong with that huge disparity and how the market is interpreting the value of the two companies.
Then again, if I was any good at stock market analysis, we'd have our own roastery by now ;-)
Anyway, there should be little question for those of us who know better that Caribou has the better drip product. What they don't have is a Schultz going out and proclaiming they're the best thing since sliced bread Mr. Coffee. Caribou's marketing/PR could use a big boost.
And I think the opportunity for capturing SBUX customers may benefit indie cafes (but do we really want the ones whose orders are as long as a Faulkner paragraph?) I think there's a larger opportunity for home/office coffee providers (Nespresso, Flavia, Keurig, et. al.) as the companies who provide those systems and coffees are better situated for an economic downturn.
Worldman Senior Member Joined: 16 Nov 2004 Posts: 1,626 Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Expobar Office Control Grinder: Cunill Tranquilo - Gaggia...
Posted Wed Jul 2, 2008, 8:23am Subject: Re: Do you dare rate Pittsburgh's coffee bars?
I had intended to make a post some weeks ago after visiting the local (to my dealership) *$s that they had a "Scooped on" date on the coffee bags which I at first mistook for a "Roasted on" date. Apparently the “scooped on” date is the date on which the coffee was scooped from a larger bag of coffee and, it would seem, NO ONE knows just when that larger bag of coffee was roasted. One wonders why anyone would care when their coffee was “scooped” if they don’t care when it was roasted! This is analogous to someone claiming that they have just sliced a piece of bread off of a loaf which was baked 21 days ago…a fresh slice of stale bread.
BTW, I do occasionally visit the local *$s (perhaps as often as once every 2 to 3 weeks) because I don’t have time to run home (4 miles distant) or to Cuppys (2.5 miles distant). I always get a double short cino and use one full bag of raw sugar therein. The result is sort of palatable…especially if I don’t linger over it…though it is never enjoyable.
fwiw, when sbux is my only option on the road, that's exactly the same drink I order, sans sugar, unless they've got an interesting SO for drip.
So, does the barista give you an odd look or question you when you order that? I've experienced a number of pbtc's who never had that request - including some who aren't familiar with "short", especially in the licensed places.
Posted Wed Jul 2, 2008, 6:11pm Subject: Re: Do you dare rate Pittsburgh's coffee bars?
The "scooped on" phenomenon, it seems to me, is just marketing, plain and simple. Same as Pike's Place Roast being the be-all-end-all of coffee. Us geeks and shop owners see through it, but many people don't. I've had someone tell me that our coffee couldn't be as good as Seattle's Best purely on the grounds that SB must be Seattle's best coffee. Same thing with someone telling me Chock Full is the world's best coffee because it is 100% Colombian (of what they didn't say). We humans want to believe what the professional marketers tell us, as if they were our good neighbors and had our best interests in mind.
I'm worried about some of the trends I'm seeing in the more specialty sector concerning branding, equipment, and even what farms one gets beans from--much of it is devolving from transparency to just plain name-dropping or wow factor. My hope is, as an industry, we will see what the bravado and hubris of all this is from Big Brother Green and choose the higher ground.
Posted Thu Jul 3, 2008, 9:58am Subject: Re: Do you dare rate Pittsburgh's coffee bars?
whether it be "scooped on" (aka the infamous PPR) or "pooped on" (kopi), there's an awful lot of hype out there. we took quite a "pooping-on" (virtually/online that is) from people when we had the Esmeralda last year. It was very hyped (I felt justified) but also a very delicious coffee. There were customers that bought it just to say they had the most expensive cup ever, and there were just as many that were genuinely excited about it. We gained a bunch of customers during those couple of weeks. The Clover was also a lot of hype for shops that didn't know how to use it (they're pissed that starbucks bought them out), and the same can be said for great ("branded" or otherwise) coffee that is executed poorly at the retailer level. I see a lot of indie's hyping "hey customer drink here 'cause I'm independent and that's soooo punk rock" but they're serving the same (or worse or indifferent) product as the big chains. I have no problem harnessing a little hype now and then because it's helped get quite a few customers on board- as long as the hype is aligned with what you want your business to be.
I believe it's the job of the "specialty" retailer (that's sole focus is on quality) to educate and help those customers make the transition from where they are now to where you want them to be. Go generate some hype of your own about awesome single origin coffees that you roasted fresh in your store- you've got plenty of things to promote so build up some buzz. I'm sure your loyal customers help by spreading the good word of mouth (positive hype for you). There had to be a time when you didn't know as much about coffee as you do today, so little by little you have to help those folks make that transition. You'll probably win over most of those people with your quality and your story... and if not... maybe they can't tell the difference and they can save some money getting the "big brother" stuff.
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