Worldman Senior Member Joined: 16 Nov 2004 Posts: 1,622 Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Expobar Office Control Grinder: Cunill Tranquilo - Gaggia...
Posted Sat Jul 5, 2008, 7:25am Subject: Re: Do you dare rate Pittsburgh's coffee bars?
beaverfallscoffee Said:
The "scooped on" phenomenon, it seems to me, is just marketing, plain and simple. Same as Pike's Place Roast being the be-all-end-all of coffee. Us geeks and shop owners see through it, but many people don't.
Yeah, that IS the problem. It is these uninformed who are driving the notion that *$s produces quality coffee.
beaverfallscoffee Said:
I've had someone tell me that our coffee couldn't be as good as Seattle's Best purely on the grounds that SB must be Seattle's best coffee. Same thing with someone telling me Chock Full is the world's best coffee because it is 100% Colombian (of what they didn't say). We humans want to believe what the professional marketers tell us, as if they were our good neighbors and had our best interests in mind.
Hence, the Clinton (Bill & Hillary) phenomenon. Sorry, but I just had to get in a political jibe. Really, it is scary that these people CAN vote!
Anyway, what we can do is what, I presume, we have always been doing…simply telling any and all who will listen that there is better to be had and where it can be had: La Prima, Aldos, 21st Street, Blue Horse, Taza D’Oro, Beaver Falls C&T, et al.
Flick Senior Member Joined: 2 Aug 2007 Posts: 150 Location: Earth Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Rancillo Silvia Grinder: Pasquini Vac Pot: Yama 3 cup Drip: Bodum French Press, Manual... Roaster: Iroast2
Posted Sat Jul 5, 2008, 5:54pm Subject: Re: Do you dare rate Pittsburgh's coffee bars?
Sorry, but I just had to get in a political jibe
There's an idea, bring the double edge sword of politics into coffee.
Although there are paths that allow people already interested in specialty coffee to go even deeper in their understanding of it, things such as cuppings, or La Prima's roasting tour ect., there still seems to be difficulty from going from coffee is coffee is coffee, and its just a bitter substance with caffeine meant to be drunk with milk and sugar to specialty coffee. But still cuppings and tours take time out of someones day that most probably won't see as worthwhile, or possibly things that will be over their head. Perhaps a decent strategy might somehow allowing people to sample a variety of different flavors at once without having to take much time out of someones day or wallet. Yes, delicious varietals are obtainable, but I think we can all agree tasting them at once is the easiest way to differentiate the. I also understand that this is also a lot easier said then done too.
Posted Sat Jul 5, 2008, 7:08pm Subject: Re: Do you dare rate Pittsburgh's coffee bars?
Flick Said:
Although there are paths that allow people already interested in specialty coffee to go even deeper in their understanding of it, things such as cuppings, or La Prima's roasting tour ect., there still seems to be difficulty from going from coffee is coffee is coffee, and its just a bitter substance with caffeine meant to be drunk with milk and sugar to specialty coffee. But still cuppings and tours take time out of someones day that most probably won't see as worthwhile, or possibly things that will be over their head. Perhaps a decent strategy might somehow allowing people to sample a variety of different flavors at once without having to take much time out of someones day or wallet. Yes, delicious varietals are obtainable, but I think we can all agree tasting them at once is the easiest way to differentiate the. I also understand that this is also a lot easier said then done too.
Flick, Our experience with doing tastings vs. cuppings is that the public that takes the time to do a cupping feel like they've walked away with a new skill and ability. Cuppings are geared to people who are already somewhat interested in coffee and want to learn more about it. We do two levels each month, a "101" where there are three very different coffees with obvious differences. The other is an advanced cupping that explores more minute differences, like individual farms within a region, or the same coffees processed differently or roasted differently or different kinds of blind cuppings that add a challenge element.
Public tastings, OTOH, generate a more transitory reaction. We've done a number of those as well with different roasters - for free, with no time commitment - and a typical reaction is kind of like, "Oh, well that's nice. Now can I have a cup of French Roast?" Sure, you can get a few converts, but in a typical informal tasting, the consumer is not nearly as engaged in a ritual or appreciation of the process.
The sad thing is, coffee, for most consumers, is still a convenience item. We learn this time and time again as I imagine other shop owners can attest. You do a catering event outside your neighborhood and the people say, "Wow, that's the best coffee I ever had." It doesn't even have to be a single origin - could be a great house blend. And if you're convenient to them, you win new customers and continue their education from there.
But if you're not convenient to them, they're not going to go out of their way on their commute to get to you to enjoy the same in your shop. They'll continue going to whatever's close, even though they now know there's better stuff 10 minutes away. Hopefully they'll talk about you to friends they might have in your neighborhood, and maybe you get to see them on a weekend, but that's about the best you can hope for.
Even if we suggest a place that serves a good cup that's closer to them than we are, the reactions are interesting - half seem appreciative of the suggestion. The other half - you can palpably sense you've just invaded their space.
So for us, we're content in furthering the education of the folks who really do want to know more. They do talk about the cupping experience to their friends and they do come back time and time again, sometimes bringing guests. It's a much slower build, but one that works.
Worldman Senior Member Joined: 16 Nov 2004 Posts: 1,622 Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Expobar Office Control Grinder: Cunill Tranquilo - Gaggia...
Posted Thu Jul 10, 2008, 8:14am Subject: Re: Do you dare rate Pittsburgh's coffee bars?
AldoCoffee Said:
So for us, we're content in furthering the education of the folks who really do want to know more. They do talk about the cupping experience to their friends and they do come back time and time again, sometimes bringing guests. It's a much slower build, but one that works.
Hmmmm...alas, 'tis true. In my years of popping off and verbally promoting the good local indie shops, few have ever visited my suggestions regularly, if at all. What has worked more is the "hands on" approach where I actaully take someone to one of these shops telling them the whole time why it is different from the commercial giants (like *$s) or local "giants" (like Nicholas). Even then, most don't seem to "catch the bug" until they have been taken several times. I guess that our's is a passion that few ever really get...and I'm OK with that.
Posted Thu Jul 10, 2008, 1:18pm Subject: Re: Do you dare rate Pittsburgh's coffee bars?
Sorry it took so long to reply, my email was sending all the CG notifications to the spam folder, unbeknownst to me:
At first, since I wasn't reading really carefully, I didn't realize that you were responding to me. I was nodding to everything you said and then thought, "Who is he talking to?" Yeah. I'm sharp. That said, I agree with most everything you say. My comments regarding hype were directed, in my mind, to those stores that hype with no substance--which is really what we fight up against here in Beaver County. Every shop says "we've got the best coffee around," but most don't. Thankfully, the "punk rock" coffee scene is relatively absent here, since Starbucks is still new to the area. But we do see a lot of hubris in the independents' marketing. It is the reason that I avoid words like "gourmet", "fine" (or any derivation thereof), "best", etc. The only word that we use in our marketing quite a bit is "homemade", since all of our baked goods are made either by myself, Bethany, or our manager Meg (we do outsource our cookies to a home-based baker, so it still counts).
Personally, I would love a Clover if I could use it correctly. I'm usually skiddish about machines (as is well documented), but I know that used properly the Clover can be a good tool. I've certainly been impressed with both 21st and Commonplaces use of it.
jakeliefer Senior Member Joined: 3 Dec 2007 Posts: 26 Location: Beaver Falls, PA Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Thu Jul 17, 2008, 11:50am Subject: Exciting News For The Pittsburgh Coffee Scene
I'd like to formally announce two exciting things going on in the Pittsburgh Coffee Scene on coffeegeek:
The first is PACA, The Pittsburgh Area Coffee Association. PACA's role is to increase quality coffee in the Pittsburgh area through training, coffee cuppings, parties, and conversations. The organization was started by myself, Phil from La Prima & Beleza, and Morgan from Union Project after several meetings over several beers. We love the Pittsburgh quality coffee community, with its knowledge and welcoming feel, and want to continue to foster that. While PACA was founded by three of us, the organization is all about the participation and interaction of the whole coffee community in Pittsburgh. PACA exists as an enabler for those passionate about coffee to learn more and teach what they know to others. We'll also play an integral role in getting the word out about quality coffee in Pittsburgh to both those in the area and those on a national and international level.
The second announcement is about PACA's first event(!), The Grind. The Grind is July 27 from 12 to 3 at the Union Project and is aimed at anyone interested in learning more about coffee. Several shops will be participating, including Aldo, Beleza, Tazza D'Oro, Beaver Falls C&T, Starbucks, and La Prima, with perhaps a few more. This event is a great opportunity to invite a friend to learn more about coffee, from how it's produced to proper brewing methods. Tickets are only $5 at the door, with the proceeds going to the Union Project. For $15 entrance you also get a sweet ceramic mug created by the artists guild at the Union Project. I'm really excited about this event and looking forward to seeing all the coffeegeeks again.
Smoothe2112 Senior Member Joined: 13 Feb 2003 Posts: 57 Location: Western New York Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Rancilio Silvia, Solis SL-70 Grinder: Rancilio Rocky, Maestro Vac Pot: Press Pot Drip: Cuisinart
Posted Sun Jul 20, 2008, 11:22am Subject: Re: Do you dare rate Pittsburgh's coffee bars?
I'm headed to your fine city in the next few weeks for vacation and another trip for work. I'm anxious to have a professional shot of Intelly BC to taste and, perhaps just as importantly, also purchase some Intelly beans. Currently, which cafes would be able to accommodate me?
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