rthomas883 Senior Member Joined: 10 Feb 2010 Posts: 9 Location: wisconsin Expertise: Professional
Posted Wed Feb 10, 2010, 8:00am Subject: Re: Coffee roasters in Las Vegas
I am also moving to Vegas this summer. I own(ed) three drive thru coffee shops and a roastery up hear in wisconsin for nine years. The economy(& Starbucks) forced me to close 2 of the drive thrus. I am sick of the weather so my wife and i plan to move to Vegas. I plan on opening a some retail coffee roasting business when I get there. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what part of town to open it? Or does anyone know of a closed coffee shop that could easily be re-opened. Thanks
Posted Wed Feb 10, 2010, 10:19am Subject: Re: Coffee roasters in Las Vegas
rthomas883 Said:
I am also moving to Vegas this summer. I own(ed) three drive thru coffee shops and a roastery up hear in wisconsin for nine years. The economy(& Starbucks) forced me to close 2 of the drive thrus. I am sick of the weather so my wife and i plan to move to Vegas. I plan on opening a some retail coffee roasting business when I get there. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what part of town to open it? Or does anyone know of a closed coffee shop that could easily be re-opened. Thanks
Las Vegas is one of the hardest hit towns in this recession. Its two biggest industries, tourism and construction, are in the tank, and many people are leaving the area. Think long and hard about this and do a LOT of homework before you make this move. One saving grace for you: rent should be cheap, and the landlords willing to make other concessions.
JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,099 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Wed Feb 10, 2010, 11:04am Subject: Re: Coffee roasters in Las Vegas
Another saving grace: coffee in Vegas SUCKS! Big time. However, type "Las Vegas" into Starbucks "Store Locator," and I get 138 locations within the city limits of Las Vegas, a few in North Las Vegas and two dozen in Henderson.
rthomas883 Senior Member Joined: 10 Feb 2010 Posts: 9 Location: wisconsin Expertise: Professional
Posted Thu Feb 11, 2010, 5:05am Subject: Re: Coffee roasters in Las Vegas
Thanks for the input so far.
I know about the economic problems in vegas right now. It actually makes it a good time to purchase an inexpensive house. I also know that I can not compete with Starbucks, for tourists $. Every casino has a Starbucks in it.
where would be a good location(s) for locals? my understanding is that you guys avoid the strip like the plague.
who would be interested in weekly/monthly home coffee delivery? Imagine waking up to a bag of fresh roasted coffee on your door step.
Is there a place to buy green coffee in town?
When I searched for drive thru coffee shops I don't find much. do you have many driver thrus? do you have drive thru Starbucks in town yet?
JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,099 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Thu Feb 11, 2010, 7:16am Subject: Re: Coffee roasters in Las Vegas
rthomas883 Said:
. . . where would be a good location(s) for locals? my understanding is that you guys avoid the strip like the plague . . . When I searched for drive thru coffee shops I don't find much. do you have many driver thrus? do you have drive thru Starbucks in town yet?
Rob, first and foremost, I wish you good luck -- Vegas DOES need great coffee; there isn't any. But realize that both Marshall and I live in California, not in Vegas; and while I do have family living there (and end up in Vegas a couple of times a year), relying on Marshall and I for what a good location would be for locals is really a bad idea! And I have no idea about drive-thrus. Sorry.
Now, having said that, you need to keep in mind that Las Vegas is a poster child for urban sprawl: the city limits of Las Vegas itself encompass 113 square miles, according to the US Census Bureau. Add in North Las Vegas (78 sq. mi.) and Henderson (79 sq. mi.), and you're looking at an urban population center covering 270 square miles. Now, I don't know where in Wisconsin you live, but the City of Milwaukee itself is 97 square miles; indeed, all of Milwaukee County is only 241.5 square miles. You're talking about a very large territory of land. Furthermore, like much of California, much of Las Vegas and its surrounding towns are "pools" of "neighborhoods," developer-planned communities connected by freeways or 8-lane surface streets. No one walks, and no one thinks about stopping on the way to work . . . that is to say, you get in the car in, say, Summerlin; you drive to the closest Starbucks (1-2 miles away, depending upon where within the housing development you live), then get back in your car with your latte for the 20 minute drive into the office.
rthomas883 Said:
who would be interested in weekly/monthly home coffee delivery? Imagine waking up to a bag of fresh roasted coffee on your door step.
Coffee isn't like milk, Rob, but you know that. Still, I'm thinking of your idea. It's not the milkman, Rob, but the postman (or the UPS/FedEx guy*) that delivers my coffee to my doorstep on a weekly basis, fresh from roasters all over the country. You'll find that's true of many people here. I live in Berkeley, CA, and I get coffee that's been roasted on a Monday and delivered to my home on Wednesday or Thursday. I personally don't like coffee "subscriptions" anymore than I like wine clubs that send you x number of bottles every month or two. I want to be able to pick my own wines, and I want to be able to choose my roasters. Yes, I have three "go to" roasters from which I order most frequently, but I also want to try coffees from different places that I may have heard about here on CG or on HB.
That said, remember this IS coffee geek, after all, and while many here are like me, we are not the average coffee drinker in America. Or even Las Vegas.
I have no idea, but couldn't you get the greens shipped via UPS?
I know, Rob, that I'm sounding somewhat negative here. Think of it as playing Devil's Advocate with you. I want you to succeed, if only so that 2x a year, I'll have somewhere to go for good coffee! ;^) But you need to think long and hard, draw up a serious (and fiscally conservative responsible) business plan. And while it IS a good time to buy an inexpensive house in the Las Vegas area, remember that this economic downturn hit Vegas especially hard; it's going to take longer (IMHO) for Vegas to recover than it will the rest of the US.
rthomas883 Senior Member Joined: 10 Feb 2010 Posts: 9 Location: wisconsin Expertise: Professional
Posted Thu Feb 11, 2010, 9:01am Subject: Re: Coffee roasters in Las Vegas
Thanks Jason,
I appreciate your input. That is exactly why I posted the question on this forum. I value any input I can get.
A little history on me. Opened my first drive thru espresso bar in Appleton WI( Metro area about 300,000) in 2001. At the time there were 2 other drive thrus in the area( one open just 2 months before me) about 2 dozen sit down shops, and a psuedo Starbucks at the Barnes and Noble. We saw a Pre Starbucks boom of drive thrus and coffee shops. I opened a second drive thru in 2003 and began roasting my own beans. By the time Starbucks opened it's store next to my drive thru in 2004 we had ballooned to about 4 dozen coffee shops in the area, and at least 8 drive thrus. My first store took about two years to recover from the Starbucks hit. I opened a third store in early 2007 right before the economy went south, and right after Starbucks opened a store next to my second store.
I struggled at those 2 stores for a little over two years, and finally through in the towel this fall. Including my first store there are only about four non Starbucks drive thrus left, and more then half of the sit down coffee shops have closed. the ones that are still open have all most all changed hands (some multiple times) There are now at least six Starbucks in the area, and three of them have drive-up windows.
I still earn an OK living at my one store. I weathered the Starbucks and economical storm with a loyal customer base, a good product, and friendly service.
So, when talking about the coffee business I have seen both the ups and downs, and will not be going in blind.
Appleton Is a very frugal area. Historically our national grocery chance record there highest coupon redemption rates in our area. I can be quite cheap my self at times.
I like the ability to communicate with a person like yourself. and be that I mean someone who loves coffee enough to order it from around the country. I looked into selling roasted coffee online. At the time I was not sure how many people would pay the additional premium incurred by the added cost of shipping.
What I have done locally with nominal success is what I called roast n go. I installed a couple small batch roasters at my drive thru (fluid air bed). I stock about 8 kinds of beans( and a dozen flavor oils) A customer can call or drive up and order the type of bean they want, tell me the level they want it roasted to, and when they want to pick it up. Then I would roast it for them and have it ready in about 25 minutes. I charge only $7 a pound. It is an easy concept but hard to explain to the first time customer.
I feel that a variant of this service could work quite well in a larger community.
I agree with you in that I hate subscriptions that don't allow you to choose. If you don't mind me asking about how much do you typically pay for a pound of beans including shipping? how often do you order?
Sorry for all the questions, but I am try to do as much research as possible before I make the move. I want to move, but I threw my suits & ties away nine years ago, and If I can keep earning a living in the coffee biz, it is like not working at all....
JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,099 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Thu Feb 11, 2010, 12:20pm Subject: Re: Coffee roasters in Las Vegas
rthomas883 Said:
Sorry for all the questions, but I am try to do as much research as possible before I make the move. I want to move, but I threw my suits & ties away nine years ago, and If I can keep earning a living in the coffee biz, it is like not working at all....
Don't apologize . . . any time that work is FUN, it beats working! ;^) Besides, doing research is crucial, and I appreciate the steps you're taking in that regard.
rthomas883 Said:
If you don't mind me asking about how much do you typically pay for a pound of beans including shipping? how often do you order?
Keep in mind that I am, in some respects, atypical -- even for Coffee Geek. My home setup consists of an Elektra T1 espresso machine, a Mahlkonig K30 Vario grinder, and a Baratza Vario as my secondary gridner (for SO and/or decaf espresso, as well as other methods of coffee preparation, like press pot and drip). In and of itself, this isn't all that unusual here (or on Home Barista, for that matter). But in my office, I have an Ala di Vittoria La Valentina, paired with a Cimbali Max Hybrid grinder (main) and a Nuova Simonelli MCF grinder (secondary).
Including shipping, my per pound cost runs about $16-18/pound, depending upon the cost of the beans (obviously) and the method of shipping. Even including the shipping, that translates to a cost of not more than $0.60 per 14 gram double shot. On average, I buy two pounds of coffee at a time, and I make the purchases every other week.
Not many here have two completely separate setups like this. Then again, there are many home roasters here, something which I have zero interest in doing
Now, there is NO DOUBT that $7/POUND is a great price! But if you are giving someone a pound of coffee within, say, 30 minutes of roasting, what about the time it takes for the beans to de-gas? (Just curious . . . )
rthomas883 Senior Member Joined: 10 Feb 2010 Posts: 9 Location: wisconsin Expertise: Professional
Posted Thu Feb 11, 2010, 4:22pm Subject: Re: Coffee roasters in Las Vegas
Thanks again for the helpful info.
The beans are typically roasted and cooled in about 18 minutes. I packaged them in valved resealable coffee bags. I have not had any issues with packaging problems. It is amazing how much gas is created over the first 24 hours. For fun I have put a couple pounds in a plan ziplock bag. the beans will usually pop the bag in a couple hours
I get kind of a kick out of giving the customers a bag of fresh beans and having them tell me they smell so good. Then I get to inform them that they are even going to smell better the next morning
I can't imagine paying (or charging) that much for beans. As I said earlier we are quite frugal up here. For the first four years I was in business I would weekly have to have discussions about the difference between my real latte and the powdered stuff from the C-store.
I can't even count the times I have been confronted about charging $2.75 for a 16 ounce mocha. I have also been informed that I did not know how to make a Cappuccino "cause Cappuccino from the gas station is sweet" so I must have made it wrong..
At least since Starbucks moved to town I don't have to have these discussions as much....
JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,099 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Thu Feb 11, 2010, 4:37pm Subject: Re: Coffee roasters in Las Vegas
Rob, I respectfully suggest you surf on over to some of the roasters listed here, and check on their prices . . . I think you'll find most coffees in the price range I cited, and the roasters on that list are among the most successful and most popular "micro-roasters" in the US. In other words, while you may find those prices to be unimaginable, people on this site (and others) pay for coffee in this price range on a regular basis. And I'm not talking COE coffees, either . . .
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