yeah, it's more like "coffee nazi" fascism. "NO COFFEE WITHOUT WATER FOR YOU" ;)
"You can write down how to make the perfect cup of coffee. But to make it really good, you have to play something fictional, you have to dress up, you have to think, This is the most important thing."
poison Senior Member Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 1,164 Location: LA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Astra Pro Grinder: Maestro Plus, Super J deal Drip: Cone filter Roaster: RK drum
Posted Sun Dec 11, 2011, 12:58pm Subject: Re: espresso profeta in westwood?
MarshallF Said:
It's always tough to imagine that, while you are looking down your nose at someone else's taste (the pumpkin latte drinker's), someone else is looking at yours the same way. Don't take it too hard. It happens all the time.
Come on, my point is that that is NOT what I did. I ordered an espresso. I have a cold, I had a headache, I was on 5 hours sleep, I needed an espresso, and I was excited to finally try Profeta. Hey, now I know.
Right. It's exactly like Nazism and Fascism, except, instead of sending you to a death camp, a shop with high standards says "We won't be a party to ruining this fine espresso. If you want to dump this exquisite drink that we are so proud of and that takes one minute to drink into a paper cup, you can find another establishment in the neighborhood to satisfy you."
Offhand, I can't think of a top tier shop in L.A. that would do it, but I could be wrong. Actually it would be an interesting bit of research to see which shops will and how they stack up in the quality department.
The only area where I might fault Profeta would be in failing to explain the reason for their policy (if they did fail). But I would certainly want to hear the barista's side of it. As a general proposition, though, I think that refusing to accommodate customer requests that violate a shop's standards is a great way to differentiate a shop's brand in a town that is big and sophisticated enough to have room for many approaches to service and quality.
easy on the sarcasm. it's called a joke. the guy i quoted is the "coffee nazi" in case you missed that. here is a little background so you may laugh eventually.....
"The Soup Nazi" is the title of the 116th episode of the NBC sitcom Seinfeld, which was the 6th episode of the 7th season. It first aired in the United States on November 2, 1995. The Soup Nazi is also the nickname of the titular character played by Larry Thomas. The term "Nazi" is used as an exaggeration of the excessively strict regimentation he constantly demands of his patrons.
NO MORE SEINFELD JOKES FOR YOU! NEXT!
MarshallF Said:
a shop with high standards says "We won't be a party to ruining this fine espresso. If you want to dump this exquisite drink that we are so proud of and that takes one minute to drink into a paper cup, you can find another establishment in the neighborhood to satisfy you."
how does adding water to espresso make it better than espresso? how does water give it "higher standards"? how would a bar be rated if they refused to serve their scotch straight?
on a side note it does fit with fascism very well*........
Coffee fascists seek to rejuvenate their shop based on commitment to the coffee community as an organic, "third wave" entity, in which individuals are bound together in national identity by suprapersonal connections of superstitions, culture, and coffee. To achieve this, coffee fascists purge bad coffee, stale beans, pods, espresso in to-go cups, and super-auto systems deemed to be the cause of decadence and degeneration of what is "higher standards" coffee. Coffee fascists advocate the creation of a totalitarian porcelain state that seeks the mass un-mobilization of an espresso through indoctrination, physical education, discipline and family policy (such as adding water). That state is led by a supreme leader(s) who exercises a dictatorship over the coffee movement, the blogs and other social networks. Coffee Fascists forbid and suppress opposition (unless the "supreme leaders" decide it's the next cool thing).
*edited to make joke/point.;)
"You can write down how to make the perfect cup of coffee. But to make it really good, you have to play something fictional, you have to dress up, you have to think, This is the most important thing."
Cerridwyn Senior Member Joined: 6 Jun 2010 Posts: 397 Location: Inland Empire California Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Mon Dec 12, 2011, 6:11am Subject: Re: espresso profeta in westwood?
Been awhile since I've seen this much STRONG opinion.
You don't change my mind Marshall - tell me why or sell it to me or you're not worth my time no matter how good you do what you do. I decline to support you.
Whether or not anyone goes there is their choice.
I still enjoy the scotch analogy. As a not so young female when I order scotch neat, most places try to convince me to add water/soda/ice to it. When I say no it ruins it, they give me a funny look.
While wine and beer, like coffee, have become more of an artisan product, no matter how good the whiskey, to many people that is just what it is. We haven't seen as much about what distinguishes a single malt from a blend or why one person thinks it is better. Maybe because high end whiskey has been around forever.
Maybe someday, coffee will be like that, around the 5th wave or so, give or take.
Posted Mon Dec 12, 2011, 9:45am Subject: Re: espresso profeta in westwood?
Cerridwyn Said:
You don't change my mind Marshall - tell me why or sell it to me or you're not worth my time no matter how good you do what you do. I decline to support you.
You might be missing my points. First, I agree that, if a shop refuses a customer's request, it should politely explain why and do their best not to make him/her feel like an ignorant peasant. Second, businesses can be selective in whom they market to and still thrive, particularly in major metropolitan areas. The fact that you, I or a hundred other people may be offended by their standards is beside the point (or may actually be an advantage to them), when it helps deliver the message that "we don't compromise."
If you think refusing to serve espresso-to-go hurts their overall business, you haven't been to a thriving third wave shop lately. Try the day-and-night line at Intelli Venice.Correction. I was surprised to learn that Intelli actually will serve espresso in a paper cup, although they may try to talk you out of it. Personally I don't understand the point of espresso to go. But, to each his own.
To sum it up: hospitality is important, but you don't have to please everybody, and the customer is not always right.
Kyle Glanville gave an excellent lecture at the Nordic Cup this year on how Intelligentsia built its extremely successful brand in L.A. partly by being perceived as a kind of exclusive club. Not catering to everyone was key to building sales. That might not work in a small market, and it's never o.k. to be rude to people, but exclusivity worked for them in this market.
For the flip side of the coin, you should see this hilarious send-up of Coffee Snobs. It was recorded at Proof Bakery/Cognoscenti Coffee in Atwater (where the real baristas are very nice). I'm sure that's how the OP felt at Profeta.
Cerridwyn Senior Member Joined: 6 Jun 2010 Posts: 397 Location: Inland Empire California Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Mon Dec 12, 2011, 7:01pm Subject: Re: espresso profeta in westwood?
Cute, and funny.
I am an odd bird. I sip my scotch and I sip my espresso. So I could see getting one to go if I stopped somewhere on the way to work. It probably takes me a few minutes to down it. I can't do it like a shooter.
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