I stopped by the competition as well as Verve on Friday. I noticed the new machines and asked about them. The "Spirit" machines look great but I feel like they are a downgrade from the LM Stradas that they used to have. Does anyone agree/disagree and why?
JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,099 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Mon Mar 18, 2013, 1:22pm Subject: Re: Santa Cruz Espresso Update
I can't say -- haven't had a shot pulled on the Spirit yet, but I've never been disappointed with a shot pulled on a commercial machine made by Kees van der Westen . . .
RoyceRuiz Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2012 Posts: 50 Location: Hollister, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Mon Mar 18, 2013, 1:42pm Subject: Re: Santa Cruz Espresso Update
The shot I had while there was a SO Peru. It was very good. My thought is that a Strada can probably brew a better shot (due to pre-infusion, pressure profiling, etc.) but the Spirit probably pulls a more consistent shot and would be easier for a less experienced barista (due to lack of the previously mentioned features). They said the moved one Strada to their training facility and are selling the other one.
JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,099 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Mon Mar 18, 2013, 3:24pm Subject: Re: Santa Cruz Espresso Update
In the FWIW Dept, there has to be a reason why someone switches from an LM -- and a Strada, to boot -- to one of Kees' machines. Presuming no sane, successful café would downgrade their equipment intentionally, so why do YOU "feel they are a downgrade from the LM Stradas they used to have"?
RoyceRuiz Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2012 Posts: 50 Location: Hollister, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Mon Mar 18, 2013, 3:44pm Subject: Re: Santa Cruz Espresso Update
JasonBrandtLewis Said:
In the FWIW Dept, there has to be a reason why someone switches from an LM -- and a Strada, to boot -- to one of Kees' machines. Presuming no sane, successful café would downgrade their equipment intentionally, so why do YOU "feel they are a downgrade from the LM Stradas they used to have"?
I feel like it is a downgrade because my understanding of the Spirit is that you don't have the ability to pressure profile (or pre-infuse). Maybe I am mistaken but to me the best two espresso machines on the market (from a quality of the shot perspective) are the Strada and the Slayer. Maybe it is just an image move. The machines are the sleekest looking I have ever seen and jump out at you. They are certainly great machines but seem to be decreasing features. The only reason I could see to downgrade would be for shot consistency. With a Strada a sub par or even an at par Barista may not pull a great shot if they are not profiling right where the Spirit automatically adjusts the pressure, increasing to 9 bar by the end of the pull.
temple Senior Member Joined: 8 Dec 2005 Posts: 62 Location: Sacramento Expertise: Pro Barista
Posted Thu Mar 21, 2013, 4:25pm Subject: Re: Santa Cruz Espresso Update
RoyceRuiz Said:
I feel like it is a downgrade because my understanding of the Spirit is that you don't have the ability to pressure profile (or pre-infuse). Maybe I am mistaken but to me the best two espresso machines on the market (from a quality of the shot perspective) are the Strada and the Slayer. Maybe it is just an image move. The machines are the sleekest looking I have ever seen and jump out at you. They are certainly great machines but seem to be decreasing features. The only reason I could see to downgrade would be for shot consistency. With a Strada a sub par or even an at par Barista may not pull a great shot if they are not profiling right where the Spirit automatically adjusts the pressure, increasing to 9 bar by the end of the pull.
Most of the Stradas that you see are the MP (manual paddle), so there isn't any pressure profiling. This includes the machines that Verve had. Only the EP Strada has pressure profiling, and last time I talked to Mike Lanz, there were only 15 in the US. The Mp Strada isn't any different, for pulling espresso, than any other La Marzocco Manual Paddle machine. Same parts, just a different design as a prelude to the Strada EP.
I don't think the Keith's machine are a down grade.
RoyceRuiz Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2012 Posts: 50 Location: Hollister, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Thu Mar 21, 2013, 4:47pm Subject: Re: Santa Cruz Espresso Update
temple Said:
Most of the Stradas that you see are the MP (manual paddle), so there isn't any pressure profiling. This includes the machines that Verve had. Only the EP Strada has pressure profiling, and last time I talked to Mike Lanz, there were only 15 in the US. The Mp Strada isn't any different, for pulling espresso, than any other La Marzocco Manual Paddle machine. Same parts, just a different design as a prelude to the Strada EP.
I don't think the Keith's machine are a down grade.
I see now. Thanks. I read the MP's description on LM's website click here and it seems like you can profile but when I read past the fist description I see you only have control of the preinfusion. Still curious if the loss of preinfusion is a negative.
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